Don't your users matter? Dev replies; More replies please!

[AncientOnyx]

Haseo Hyuuga

Woah....people. You seriously need to get a life. Gaia is not a real thing. It's electronic. Don't stress about nonsensical things that won't impact our lives in a truely significant way. Go ride a bike or something. Sheesh.

Why Ancient...

I think you've missed the point of what SF is all about. Read the rules please.

No need to PM you about that either, you made a public post about the users, so you get a public reply.

...Why Onyx?

[MlDGET]

Honestly, I must say that this is all extremely well said, I have been having
these exact thoughts for about a year or so. Believe it or not, I actually joined
back in '03, I just made this as a mule. But I digress... Every single day after school
I would come home and wait to open my sealed, I would wait and wait for my brother to get
off of the computer for one purpose. To come here. I have spent years of my life dedicated to this site, but the first thing that made me think was the Cash Shop. Yes, while some items are nice, I do not feel like having to pay an arm and a leg for a bunch of pixels. Gaia is NOT free at this point. Yes, we have access to forums, we have access to a lot of simple features, but without paying I am essentially using a trial account. That is absolutely ridiculous. I have spent so much money on this site, anything from the original MCs, one CS item. Finally, I gave up. I can barely stand this site anymore. In fact, this thread is the only reason I am even on this site. Here are just a few things that annoy the living hell out of me. For one, admins do not do anything anymore. I had a mule banned a while back for botting, and yet I until that moment did not even know what botting was. I tried to appeal the ban like any "fair" site would allow, and yet I received a rather nasty PM from the mod I was appealing too. Another example, a few years ago, I actually saw someone with an item that I wanted, so I talked to them, and after some bartering I got them to agree that along with gold they would receive some art. Well, unfortunately for me, they got the gold and the art, I didn't get a damn thing. The trade system was as flawed then as it is now. And finally, the final thing I shall say on this accursed site... Give a damn about Towns, please. I was so stoked when it came out, but not long after I saw something wrong. Cybering, bullying, and some s**t that I wouldn't even tell my mother about. Porn links, etc. I reported every single thing, and what happened? Nothing. In fact one of those users is still on this site, now heralded as one of the "legends" of the Chatterbox. Why, if they can get away with that, am I unfairly banned and never listened to? This site is dying, and along with that my faith that it can be resuscitated. Goodbye all, I bid you adieu.

Pardon the lack of cohesion, punctuation and terrible phrasing.
I just can't bring myself to care anymore. :]

[Sakura Moonflower]

I KNEW it wasn't just me! D<
Everything the thread creator said is true, but here's my own account:

I had to transfer just about every item I owned on this account (my main account: it's a long story. >_> Well, not really... ) to another account (yet another story) because a user on the site threatened to get me banned (a third, truly long story) for personal reasons. (I did absolutely nothing wrong on the site, of that I'll guarantee: putting it simply, that user and I had a big fight IRL and she decided to try to get me banned from Gaia as a result. -_-; She really is that petty, and I'm NOT just saying that. I could name a lot of other incidents related to this story, but aside from thinking she tried incessantly to hack this, my main account, over the past year, I'd rather not give the full details of the things she did do and whatnot. >_> )

As I was transferring my many items for safety's sake, I hoped to god I wouldn't be banned because someone thought I was a hacker and didn't do their research.
I was angry because I knew that the mod who would probably try to ban me wouldn't actually look into the matter himself or herself to see what was really going on.
What wound up happening is that I got a message from a moderator almost half a year later telling me to stop harassing that user (I never harassed her to begin with: if anything, she was the one who broke from the ToS during our fight and she broke it big time, and if the mod had looked into the matter she would have realized it for what it was straight away.) or that she, personally, would ban me from the site.

The language she used was offensive to say the least (albeit not crude), and inciteful.

Because the user I fought with over a year ago and I do not talk even in real life anymore, I figure it's only a little safe to have some of my hard-won items back on my main account, but my second account (which is technically my third: that's another story all it's own, and it's on the profile of that third account, but if you joined after 2005 I'm sure it'll be a treat to hear about the glitchiness of avatar creation and account submission of the old days that led to me having three accounts on Gaia when I only ever intended to have just one... -___- wink is a would-be hacker's wet dream (the avatar is one hell of a sharp-dressed man) because I'm afraid of changing the way the avatar looks due to the screwed up inventory page. >.<;

The mass bannings are taking out perfectly innocent people, and I could literallly name a user who was affected (Desante Amari) by the senseless banning of users who have done absolutely nothing wrong.

This is real, and it's happening, Gaia. Don't ignore it. You're losing the people who trusted you enough and certainly paid their money. I know Dessy did (my friend, the user) it en masse, and yet instead of giving up on you he made a new account with a similar name as the original, and I'm pretty sure he still pays for an MC from time to time. I can name quite a few users who pay for certain items. This, however, is an issue already discussed intelligently in the thread creators original post.
Back to my original lament:

Couldn't you at least research the claims of violation of the ToS BEFORE deciding to even WARN a person about the offense they purportedly caused?

The matter with the user that I mentioned earlier was a very personal one that had nothing to do with Gaia itself, but because of the personality of that user (Chii_Asakura) she tried to get me banned from Gaia by deliberately lying and filing a report saying that I was harassing her.
I was not given a chance to explain, though I certainly tried and was greeted with additional incredible rudeness from the moderator in spite of my very polite explanation of the events (which I tried to keep short and as intelligent and polite and non-threatening as possible. >_>; ) that had passed so as to have her giving me that initial warning. While I'm thankful I only got a warning as opposed to being banned (I've been Saku since the summer of '03. I'm an oldbie, bishes! XD Uh, wait, is this my Li account? >_>; This is my wet dream account that I mentioned earlier...) , I'm still upset that I even got that warning in the first place just because the mod was not only too lazy to look into the events twisted by a lying user with an agenda, a bias, and a motive, but was too power hungry to care about doing her job in a satisfactory manner.

This is all I feel I should complain about in just one post since they affected me personally in a big way, but I know I'll return... >_>; I know I posted in Site Feedback about the Aquariums, and I've already said what I said about that. If you'd actually bothered to read it, you would have known my dislike for the idea.
-_-;

[Zircon_Sphere]

Vampire Lemons

Inflation in the MP due to users selling those same items for absurdly high amounts of gold. The average user doesn't have a million gold on hand at any given moment, and it usually takes at least a month (especially if they don't use the Mp often/"play the market" as some do) for alot of people to get enough gold to buy those items. And by the time most users save up 50k for an item, it's shot up another 50k and they still can't afford it.

Coco Kitty for example. When I first decided to quest for it, it was around 40k. Two days later, it was at 80k.

My friends gave me 80k, and I bought the Coco. This was back in maybe septemeber of last year, at the earliest. Possibly Novemeber. Now, it's over 210k on a normal day.

When the EI is going for 80k in the MP, most people are going to say "******** it, I'll buy it with cash because it's quicker." But if they don't have the cash on hand because of bills, etc, and they don't have the time to sit on for hours a day posting and playing games because they work, are in school, whatever, then it becomes nearly impossible for them to ever get that item. They'll have to save for months to afford it. If the inflation wasn't so bad, I don't think people would have a problem buying off the MP if they wanted it and didn't have cash, but since the prices are so high...

Mods can't do anything about how users price their items; the best they tried was adding the 2% tax, but other than that...seriously, they can't force anyone to price their items lower. The reason the coco rose so high is because it's a novelty item, it was predictable that it would happen; if you pay attention to the marketplace it's pretty easy to figure out when an item will rise or fall (this is not meant to be a cruel statement, just a statement...in case anyone misread it...).

If items are so important to you...I need to agree with haseo Hyuuga; people need a life...I realize that I have a lot of the 'premium' items and that people might say "Yea, well, you have all this, so you have nothing to complain about," but...I have all that because I don't have a life, and that I know is sad...that I care so much about items on a screen.

[SaraWhiteWolf]

*blinks at Moon's post* I am sorry to hear that, I really am. sad

[SmurfQueen279]

Sakura Moonflower

I KNEW it wasn't just me! D<
Everything the thread creator said is true, but here's my own account:

I had to transfer just about every item I owned on this account (my main account: it's a long story. >_> Well, not really... ) to another account (yet another story) because a user on the site threatened to get me banned (a third, truly long story) for personal reasons. (I did absolutely nothing wrong on the site, of that I'll guarantee: putting it simply, that user and I had a big fight IRL and she decided to try to get me banned from Gaia as a result. -_-; She really is that petty, and I'm NOT just saying that. I could name a lot of other incidents related to this story, but aside from thinking she tried incessantly to hack this, my main account, over the past year, I'd rather not give the full details of the things she did do and whatnot. >_> )

As I was transferring my many items for safety's sake, I hoped to god I wouldn't be banned because someone thought I was a hacker and didn't do their research.
I was angry because I knew that the mod who would probably try to ban me wouldn't actually look into the matter himself or herself to see what was really going on.
What wound up happening is that I got a message from a moderator almost half a year later telling me to stop harassing that user (I never harassed her to begin with: if anything, she was the one who broke from the ToS during our fight and she broke it big time, and if the mod had looked into the matter she would have realized it for what it was straight away.) or that she, personally, would ban me from the site.

The language she used was offensive to say the least (albeit not crude), and inciteful.

Because the user I fought with over a year ago and I do not talk even in real life anymore, I figure it's only a little safe to have some of my hard-won items back on my main account, but my second account (which is technically my third: that's another story all it's own, and it's on the profile of that third account, but if you joined after 2005 I'm sure it'll be a treat to hear about the glitchiness of avatar creation and account submission of the old days that led to me having three accounts on Gaia when I only ever intended to have just one... -___- wink is a would-be hacker's wet dream (the avatar is one hell of a sharp-dressed man) because I'm afraid of changing the way the avatar looks due to the screwed up inventory page. >.<;

The mass bannings are taking out perfectly innocent people, and I could literallly name a user who was affected (Desante Amari) by the senseless banning of users who have done absolutely nothing wrong.

This is real, and it's happening, Gaia. Don't ignore it. You're losing the people who trusted you enough and certainly paid their money. I know Dessy did (my friend, the user) it en masse, and yet instead of giving up on you he made a new account with a similar name as the original, and I'm pretty sure he still pays for an MC from time to time. I can name quite a few users who pay for certain items. This, however, is an issue already discussed intelligently in the thread creators original post.
Back to my original lament:

Couldn't you at least research the claims of violation of the ToS BEFORE deciding to even WARN a person about the offense they purportedly caused?

The matter with the user that I mentioned earlier was a very personal one that had nothing to do with Gaia itself, but because of the personality of that user (Chii_Asakura) she tried to get me banned from Gaia by deliberately lying and filing a report saying that I was harassing her.
I was not given a chance to explain, though I certainly tried and was greeted with additional incredible rudeness from the moderator in spite of my very polite explanation of the events (which I tried to keep short and as intelligent and polite and non-threatening as possible. >_>; ) that had passed so as to have her giving me that initial warning. While I'm thankful I only got a warning as opposed to being banned (I've been Saku since the summer of '03. I'm an oldbie, bishes! XD Uh, wait, is this my Li account? >_>; This is my wet dream account that I mentioned earlier...) , I'm still upset that I even got that warning in the first place just because the mod was not only too lazy to look into the events twisted by a lying user with an agenda, a bias, and a motive, but was too power hungry to care about doing her job in a satisfactory manner.

This is all I feel I should complain about in just one post since they affected me personally in a big way, but I know I'll return... >_>; I know I posted in Site Feedback about the Aquariums, and I've already said what I said about that. If you'd actually bothered to read it, you would have known my dislike for the idea.
-_-;

I almost want to be a mod. I don't care if it means I'll have to pay more attention to things. I can't let this sort of stuff continue. I would have looked into it. I would have made sure that the person's claims were true, before I acted on them in any way. It just isn't fair to only listen to one side of things. People lie all the time; how could anyone, mod or otherwise, be so naive as to not realize that?

[Disconsolation]

I cant quite read the whole thread now (over 200 pages).

But I'm Here to say I'll support this forum by adding my post here to help increase its popularity. I will also help and No longer support with donating. Although we can Boycott, it'll take millions before it'll make a difference. But at least I will contribute to that.

Thank you with this thread, although I haven't gotten fully addicted until about a year ago I was here for a good few years. So I never fully knew or realized what Gaia has turned its little head too. But Your thread has made things clear in a sense.

But seeing as I am a normal Zeta user, It seems to me that they are putting a lot of work behind it to get it working. But I understand how the wait had been irritating for others who wish to join, and I HIGHLY disagree with the box giving free tickets to play earlier.

That for me is a clear way of milking the impatient users who have sat on zOmg waiting for it to come out.

[FirePhoenix]

Hmm... you know. I have already seen the dawn of these problems and I'm not surprised at all it's becoming reality. I guess I can say "The MTV sponsorship heard round Gaia." set off the gears towards what I will refer to as a rather unstable Gaia.

So...

From some posts I read, haha. Developers got the blame for something the BIZ people decided?

Well who here thinks if you were blamed for something you had no control over, would you think of it unfair?

Since the most evident thing I see here is 'money'. It seems like money is the root of problems and can also be the seeds of solutions.

(It pisses me off how these BIZ people don't seem to know how to execute things. For example Aquariums. Jeez, way to take an idea gone terribly wrong. Honestly, what's so bad about letting a free feature that allows us to do more with the fish we catch? MAYBE we would want to keep the site running if it actually gives us what we want despite it isn't a cash cow.)

I really think Gaia can turn this all around. There's always a different route to take. You're not given just left or right, you can go northwest or southeast too!

I'm rather sleepy so forgive me on my rather general response.

---

All I want Gaia to realize is that you need to bring in your old roots back and what the site meant back then. Too superficial, too focused on money, too much on things that doesn't constitute downright fun.

Again I'll use Aquariums as an example, why the hell can't we have a feature that does not require money and actually uses fish from 'Fishing'? You could have added items that may require Cash Shop items like better decorations for the aquarium. Well why didn't you? No - WHY NOT? Don't tell me it doesn't make money, don't give me that crap. Yea, you're a company, but so what? Don't tell me you've completely lost sight of what it truly meant to get on Gaia and have fun! Look, we're not here just to pump you up so you could get fame and success. We're a part of you, and if you think we're just stepping stones for such goals, then you better think twice.

Seriously Gaia, if you're too focused on just trying to see where Gaia sells, then you're obviously trying to take us for fools. When we're having fun, money isn't an object right? Well you know what, apparently tons of people don't feel like they are anymore or not as much at least considering all of these posts in this thread.

So Gaia, let me ask you, why the hell can't we have an aquarium that's free and actually what users wanted? Just because you can't make money? Hmm... Maybe I should be saying the "BIZ" people. Because of your decision, you've decided that we can't have what we apparently want or have fun with unless money is thrown in there somehow.

Hah.

Again - look around. If you think you're doing so well why does this thread exist? Why is it that you have so many complaints? Would you have so many complaints if you could give a shred of dedication to us as well? You're doing too much at once. You're giving us features we necessarily didn't even ask for (at least now how we wanted it to be).

After zOMG comes out, I hope you start actually giving us what matters not things just to distract us. (Like fixing things that ACTUALLY need fixing?)

Oh and about updates coming more frequently. Who cares? Quality over quantity. You can regurgitate as much things you want but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be good.

Geez, what's wrong with slowing it down? You act like you need to build up some marvelous grand empire as quickly as possible. Ever think that if you build something up so quickly, how quickly it can fall as well?

I also realize you focused on success so much and keep saying you're still doing everything to make things fun. (Yea you do - 100k users! Woo! We're on Good Morning America! Woo! Number 1 Website!) It's nice and all but it seems like you really are losing the meaning of having fun. What's it mean to us if you're being successful if you're just going to wave it around for the world to see so you can become big? Does it mean we're going to help reap more money? Oh yea, Gaia is such a great site because it doesn't listen to it's damn users and only wants numbers. How many use Gaia, how much we make, blah blah blah.

And I'm gonna stop ranting because I'm just well... ranting. Plus I need sleep.

Night! xD

[Legend_Is_Reborn]

SaraWhiteWolf

*blinks at Moon's post* I am sorry to hear that, I really am. sad

We know. But sorry doesn't cut it sometimes. It can only make people feel better. Like what you just did for saying sorry.

[Legend_Is_Reborn]

Ok... I was banned on my last account. permabanned. You could see Lanzer tower with a Banhammer walking towards my house until he smashed it. I was po'ed... to say the least.

The worst part? I did nothing that I know of! I never even cursed (Ok i admit, I was one of those 10 year olds who begged mommy and daddy to give them Gaia cash) I never even called cybered, spammed, or anything! I was there from September 2004 to September 2007. And guess what? I had EVERYTHING. One of those red scarfs(Chuaiko Notriso or whatever. :p) A coco the kitty, even Ceiling Cat! And what happened to me? BANHAMMER! That's what! It was so nice... I was there for the Grombie attack, I was there during Gambino's sniping, I was there during Moria's fling with Louie... but yeah. So from that day on, I treated gaia with a Love/SUPERHATE relationship... or as Dane Cook says, a "Relationshit." I have been poor ever since. I boycotted MCs, Gaia Cash, Everything. And guess what? I didn't make a difference. We didn't make a difference. We STILL aren't making a difference. It's unfair to us... Hold on, I'm tearing up... *sniffle* See these clothes I am wearing? My most expensive items. Yeah I know right? The only way anyone can earn money anymore is by buying gaia Cash, buying stuff in the CS, and selling it in the Market. What happened to the old Layout for Gaia? Poof. Gone in a flash. We all said no. Gaia said yes. Gaia is currently working the same way our government does: Crappily. So all I can say is.... Gaia, you made me cry when I was younger! crying

[Elfxhalf]

Pretty Cool!!! heart

[windy_angel141]

GAH! Stupid pop up interfered me when I posted this so I'm writting this again! scream
I thought gaia was on our sides when I started...I mean, think about it..
you can talk with people, dress up avatars, play games, read mangas, involve in guilds, play the marketplace at your chance to be rich, shop...hang around...that was UTOPIA itself...
and for free, although there was MC, no one complained because users were greatful of the UTOPIA and knew gaia needed that to keep the UTOPIA in the world.
However..at some point, gaia began to lose it.
At the point where cash shop was made...
I still understood though and thought gaia must need money
and all those EIs were wonderful and began to enjoy myself.
But then gaia was out of control...I'm not going to list the details since they're all in the first page.
My first guess is.....gaia's president died somehow and his evil mischevious son is now in charge of gaia and he's causing all these miseries!!!!
My second guess is......gaia's people were kind people.....and then they needed money so they introduced something called cash shop....but then since cash shop gave them soooo much money, people began to want them more....and slowly becoming corruped...

second guess seems right.....but the evil little son theory's pretty strong too...I mean gaia kinda speeded up its misery and corruption all of a sudden

[irkd]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/09/prweb553887.htm

[windy_angel141]

and...uh....

gaia's mischevious president....? sweatdrop
Wait...what was his name......he was in manga once..
was it Lanzer?? But wait, was he the president??
aaannny way...
whoever's in charge of gaia right now...
I doubt that you'll be reading this..... there are 12421994270/100 chance(put that into percentages) that you'll be reading this....but I'm writing them down anyway because what people should never ever lose in whatever situation is hope.

I'm very sorry about your dad's death.
But please...I know you're sad and upset but your dad's death is not gaia's fault
and I know you like money...heck, I like money too, who doesn't?
Please remember to be generous
if you are ever reading this thread(which would never happen in a billion years)
you could see all these people protesting.
Guess what?
They're still here protesting because they haven't lost hope.
We still believe that gaia will be back to our utopia even if there are no chance that it would be.
They haven't given up on gaia yet, and hope you will open your eyes someday
people who are really disappointed had already left gaia, giving up.
We are not giving up. We are not going to lose our hope.

[roxy is a diva]

God, I love this thread; it's a little piece of intelligence in an otherwise idiotic atmosphere.

I can't agree more with the original post; I joined late but even when I did, the old interface was there, as well as the old markets. No cash shop, no cinemoas, no whatever. I won'te pretend to know what old Geiai was like, so I can only give my own experience. But what I do know is that when the changes were made, it went down the toilet fast.

First, as you said, are teh unecessary features. An IM? Cinemas? WHY? If they didn't get all Facebook-y and get all these waste of time features, they wouldn't have to jump on teh whambulance. I think that is just used to justify this bs, like aquariums being cash-only. And for what, pixels that die. Let me tell you how excited I'm not, especially because it is super cute and I liked using the full-screen as a screensaver, so to speak. But then my fish disappeared and that took care of that. Bollocks to that, I say.

It kills me that people actually 1. pay cash for the fish and 2, actually JUSTIFY Gaia for making us pay cash for that. "It's like such and such game..." they say. Well if we wanted that, then we would go there. And come to think of it, it isn't even a game. It's something you just enjoy. Or are supposed to, at any rate. And do the drops and clam items make spending money worth it? I think we all know the answer to that.

Also, I just love (pardon the sarcasm) how they implement changes that don't even work. The whole "My Gaia" account settings? Ya. That was seriously screwed up. And not that I'm one to nitpick grammar, but with all the typos and such, it's obvious how much of a half-assed job that was. Same thing with the feeds. It gives you everything you DON'T want and it still doesn't work when you change it back or choose the oppositie seeting. Edit your feeds...ya right. *snorts* Also, the ne PM box...it blows AND it changed just like that. Maybe we don't want it? UGH. It's like "Hey guys, we changed this!" and that is AFTER the fact.

And did anyone else notice how the 2% tax in the markets had the exact oppositie effect from the one it was supposed to have? What a joke that turned out to be. The prices went ridiculously way up after that. I was questing baby seal slippers at the time and had been damn close, and next thing they were like 1mil. WTF is that? And the cash stuff just makes it worse.

I can go on, but ya...I'll shut up now. Sorry it's long...I needed to rant and felt safe here lol.