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Luniara
WAH WAH WAH, ALL ART is copying someone. shut up.

People who draw anime should hopefully learn to make their style work.
We've ALL learned through imitation. Some people just SUCK at it, some people don't.

I guess one shouldn't like Western comics either. Say, like Marvel or DC.

You realize these ppl are mass producing that stuff? Style after style. It's all the same.

Everyone has copied off of someone, they just take it and make it their own. People learn this as they progress in their skills. If they are good enough american artists to become "manga-ka", and they're able to work as some artists inker, penciler, etc because they have similar styles-

Who's to say their work is s**t?

Just shut the hell up, IMO. Someone who says crap like that can't draw their way out of a cardboard box.


We really should raze all those pesky art schools, then, they are a total scam.
Luniara
WAH WAH WAH, ALL ART is copying someone. shut up.

People who draw anime should hopefully learn to make their style work.
We've ALL learned through imitation. Some people just SUCK at it, some people don't.

I guess one shouldn't like Western comics either. Say, like Marvel or DC.

You realize these ppl are mass producing that stuff? Style after style. It's all the same.

Everyone has copied off of someone, they just take it and make it their own. People learn this as they progress in their skills. If they are good enough american artists to become "manga-ka", and they're able to work as some artists inker, penciler, etc because they have similar styles-

Who's to say their work is s**t?

Just shut the hell up, IMO. Someone who says crap like that can't draw their way out of a cardboard box.


Without learning the basics of anatomy and the way the human body fits together, even in Manga, one becomes this man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Liefeld

Cower and fear the Liefeld.

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Luniara
WAH WAH WAH, ALL ART is copying someone. shut up.

People who draw anime should hopefully learn to make their style work.
We've ALL learned through imitation. Some people just SUCK at it, some people don't.

Er, what? Do you mean to say that life drawing is imitation, since its 'copying' a pose from a model?
Quote:

I guess one shouldn't like Western comics either. Say, like Marvel or DC.

You realize these ppl are mass producing that stuff? Style after style. It's all the same.

No, actually, Western comics each have their own separate styles just as Japanese comics do too. There is no template for either which I can't show you several examples of work which do not conform to it.

Quote:

Just shut the hell up, IMO. Someone who says crap like that can't draw their way out of a cardboard box.

Yes, add some personal attacks with no basis on the end, that'll work wonders. Looking at your own art, you're pretty good, and you look like you've done some life drawing or at least some good referencing, so why on earth are you making this argument?
Luniara
WAH WAH WAH, ALL ART is copying someone. shut up.

People who draw anime should hopefully learn to make their style work.
We've ALL learned through imitation. Some people just SUCK at it, some people don't.

I guess one shouldn't like Western comics either. Say, like Marvel or DC.

You realize these ppl are mass producing that stuff? Style after style. It's all the same.

Everyone has copied off of someone, they just take it and make it their own. People learn this as they progress in their skills. If they are good enough american artists to become "manga-ka", and they're able to work as some artists inker, penciler, etc because they have similar styles-

Who's to say their work is s**t?

Just shut the hell up, IMO. Someone who says crap like that can't draw their way out of a cardboard box.


This is one of the most astounding displays of idiocy I've witnessed on this forum, and I have witnessed many a display of idiocy.

The point is not whether generic manga style is better than or worse than generic western comics, or even generic european comics. The point is that you need a base of anatomy to work off of, and you're not learning that by stylizing early, and then hoping you will pick it up as you go along.
To add another metaphor to the dolefully ignored ones already posted, it's like designing a fantastic building, but forgetting to make a base for it, and watching it fall apart around your ears.

The order goes like this:
1. Learn basics (inc: anatomy, perspective, colour, lighting, etc.)
2. Stylize.

Not the other way around. There is nothing wrong with integrating from other styles - we all do it. But the base needs to come from skill and technique. You don't get to be a dancer by flailing your arms in what you hope is a vaguely attractive fashion, you learn TECHNIQUE.

As for who's to say their work is s**t? Well I call em as I see em. And I can draw all over the inside of a cardboard box, work my way over the lid, draw on the outside of the cardboard box and then continue my way up the walls.

How many more metaphors do we need to throw at you people before you get the point that Anatomy is important. There are no shortcuts in drawing if you actually want to develop a skill and not just look pathetic.
Of course they should learn fundamentals. That is a GIVEN. I NEVER said for them NOT TO. "idiocy" my a**.

I never once said they shouldn't. I said they can draw what styles they want. I take anatomy classes, draw from life- and I choose to draw anime-esk styles.

My argument was against anyone complaining about young children drawing anime, etc. No one should be telling anyone what to or what not to draw and how to do it. That's how I see it.

I strongly support they practice OTHER THINGS you learn in SCHOOL as well.

(also, thank you.)

For the record, I was talking STYLE-WISE and kinda being sarcastic.
KomiyanZaibach
Looking at your own art, you're pretty good, and you look like you've done some life drawing or at least some good referencing, so why on earth are you making this argument?


Maybe she was trying to be sarcastic... with bad results. It happens to be best of us.
But we aren't arguing against drawing in a manga style, we're arguing against starting directly with manga and learning none of the very important fundamentals.
Oh, because we got confused, since the argument being made was not that style imitation was bad and wrong, it was that style imitation performed without adequate understanding of art fundamentals was bad and wrong. Sorry!!! Although, even if the imitation of a style is performed perfectly, you just end up with one person who draws exactly like another person and brings absolutely nothing new to the table, so there's that.

Perhaps if you hadn't resorted to base personal attacks against the skills of the people making these arguments, we could have taken you a little more seriously.
I more than likely missed a post or two then. I saw a post referencing drawing in anime styles how it's SO terrible. To which I DO apologize if I jumped in at a wrong point.
Sense vs Sensibility

How many more metaphors do we need to throw at you people before you get the point that Anatomy is important. There are no shortcuts in drawing if you actually want to develop a skill and not just look pathetic.


As many as possible. Art Education in the US sucks major a**, and thus we're having arguments like this very often. If we really want any of these cats to improve, we're gonna have to become the teachers we never had. Really good online teachers.
UR LANGUAGE IS OFFENSIVE's avatar

IRL Fatcat

It doesn't matter what you start with
as long as, at some point, you learn to draw realistic human anatomy and proportions
for example, I started drawing anime in fifth grade, and the anatomy sucked, but I had my own style
I recently took life drawing classes where I drew humans realistically and now I can incorporate those techniques into my anime art.

Also, it's ridiculous for anyone to be complaining about anime when they are part of an anime-based site. I just don't get it. You say that American people who draw anime have no future in art, but this site is obviously American. Alot of the anime-style characters on gaia are drawn by American artists. Obviously, there are some career paths for people who draw anime.

if you have a problem with anime, I'm sure you'd be happier quitting gaia.
Luniara
I more than likely missed a post or two then. I saw a post referencing drawing in anime styles how it's SO terrible. To which I DO apologize if I jumped in at a wrong point.


Annnnnd that is why I said 'idiocy'. I assumed you were responding to the overall topic.
Makaibari
It doesn't matter what you start with
as long as, at some point, you learn to draw realistic human anatomy and proportions
for example, I started drawing anime in fifth grade, and the anatomy sucked, but I had my own style
I recently took life drawing classes where I drew humans realistically and now I can incorporate those techniques into my anime art.

Also, it's ridiculous for anyone to be complaining about anime when they are part of an anime-based site. I just don't get it. You say that American people who draw anime have no future in art, but this site is obviously American. Alot of the anime-style characters on gaia are drawn by American artists. Obviously, there are some career paths for people who draw anime.

if you have a problem with anime, I'm sure you'd be happier quitting gaia.


I didn't say I had a problem with anime. I said i found it detrimental to development when people don't learn the basics and stick to anime while dismissing other disciplines.
Makaibari

Also, it's ridiculous for anyone to be complaining about anime when they are part of an anime-based site. I just don't get it. You say that American people who draw anime have no future in art, but this site is obviously American. Alot of the anime-style characters on gaia are drawn by American artists. Obviously, there are some career paths for people who draw anime.

if you have a problem with anime, I'm sure you'd be happier quitting gaia.
The problem is moreso with Americans going 'I'm going to Japan to be a manga-ka' which is not going to ever happen, rather than Americans wanting to draw in another nation's style, which as you pointed out can work just fun.

I started by drawing Tiny Toons, making up my own stuff based on that, and then some Pokemon manga because I though Team Rocket were so cool >_> I still hold that everything I drew before someone kicked me in the a** and told me to learn anatomy and perspective is kinda awful.

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