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So what is your argument exactly?

Whilst I wish to stay on topic, I'll take the bait.

A woman fights so she can abort something that isn't technically a human.
Circumcision is a fight whether to mutilate a living, breathing being- regardless of gender, the baby is alive and ultimately is shared between the man in the woman.
A fetus isn't a human, it is a clump of cells. A clump of cells versus mutilation of a sentient being are completely different and opened for both genders to debate.

So what you're saying is it should be the choice of both genders.
k.


Though I am extremely against it, I think it should be a choice of the child when he is grown.

It should be left alone until the human directly effected by it can decide whether or not to mutilate his own p***s.
I agree with you, and think that anyone considering it should have a counseling session before they do so. My BFF had it done when he was a teen, and he said he never regretted something so much in his life. The pain was excruciating for days, and he - unlike babies - had it done while anesthetized and could take painkillers.

Germany recently banned circumcision for non-consenting children except when medically necessary such as in the case of phimosis The Jews and Muslims there are outraged. Of all the things to agree on and support, they had to go with mutilating babies. emotion_facepalm Oh, if you want to kill your appetite, look up metzitzah b'peh.and tell me how that is not an outright sexual assault.


YEAH. I just looked up metzitzah b'peh the other day, and GOD that is like, SEXUAL ASSAULT.
Did you read about those babies who got herpes from the mohel and died as a result? Some of these guys are even refusing to tell the parents that there is a risk of infection that way, or even that they are using their mouths rather than a sterile instrument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/rabbis-will-defy-law-on-circumcision-ritual/
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So what you're saying is it should be the choice of both genders.
k.


Though I am extremely against it, I think it should be a choice of the child when he is grown.

It should be left alone until the human directly effected by it can decide whether or not to mutilate his own p***s.
I agree with you, and think that anyone considering it should have a counseling session before they do so. My BFF had it done when he was a teen, and he said he never regretted something so much in his life. The pain was excruciating for days, and he - unlike babies - had it done while anesthetized and could take painkillers.

Germany recently banned circumcision for non-consenting children except when medically necessary such as in the case of phimosis The Jews and Muslims there are outraged. Of all the things to agree on and support, they had to go with mutilating babies. emotion_facepalm Oh, if you want to kill your appetite, look up metzitzah b'peh.and tell me how that is not an outright sexual assault.


YEAH. I just looked up metzitzah b'peh the other day, and GOD that is like, SEXUAL ASSAULT.
Did you read about those babies who got herpes from the mohel and died as a result? Some of these guys are even refusing to tell the parents that there is a risk of infection that way, or even that they are using their mouths rather than a sterile instrument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/rabbis-will-defy-law-on-circumcision-ritual/


You have to be a nutjob to say this is okay.
Im not surprised that there is infection, there's tons of bacteria in the human mouth, literally a petri dish of germs. I hoped they sued, but they had a hand in killing that child.

See people, this is what happens when you don't go to school.
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If they dont have a will and their families love them and there is a chance they may wake up, then I would hope they would love that person enough to ATLEAST try to keep them alive for a year. If someone has tumors like my uncle did that spread from his mouth to his brain and caused him to go into a coma and the person discussed it or had a will stating they wanted the plug to be pulled, then I believe that there is no more you can do but to follow the persons wishes. If you arent them and they didnt give you instructions then its not in your place to be a Kevorkian.


I'm sorry but could you give me a reference or explanation of a "Kevorkian"? I have no idea what you are describing when you say that.

Otherwise I will ask the question again. This is to be point blank that the patient in this extreme condition doesn't have a will. He never discussed the possibility of death to any one nor had it even crossed his mind. Though his family loves him and was close to him, they have no idea what the patient would have wanted. Not the slightest clue.

Do they have the right to end his life if they felt that it was the right thing to do? Please give a direct answer.
I gave you stories as well in my last post of recoveries. Kevorkian was a doctor that went to jail for pulling the plug on dieing patients saying it would end their suffering.


If they dont have a will and have not told you to kill them, then I dont think that you should get a say in weather they live or die. But thats just me. I dont have a will and I tell my boyfriend every day. If something happens to me do everything you can to save me.
So you would be willing to "live" as a vegetable for the rest of the duration of your "life" (if you'd call it that), draining away at the money of tax payers and your loved ones in medical expenses purely to keep your nonfunctional body alive?

Do you realize what a vapid and selfish notion that is?
Do you realize how cruel that can be to family?
Do you realize how cruel that can be to some victims?


This is my belief.

"Right to life is a phrase that describes the belief that a human being has an essential right to live, particularly that a human being has the right not to be killed by another human being. The concept of a right to life is central to debates on the issues of euthanasia, capital punishment, abortion, self defense and war."

"In 1776, the United States Declaration of Independence declared that all men are endowed with certain inalienable rights, and that "among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"."

In 1948, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations General Assembly declared in article three:
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.


In 1966, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly.
Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.

Also before you go getting into taxes. The family of the person in the hospital and the person themselves in the hospital have payed taxes and probably would still be paying taxes while using taxes. That is the reason we pay taxes, to pay for things that we may need to use in the future. That is not selfish, that is getting a service that we payed for our entire lives. Me and my boyfriend pay taxes every month threw pay checks, dont try and tell me that I am selfish and dont deserve the services that I have payed for with my own money.
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It's a matter of whether a not a woman AND her family involve have the CHOICE to choose to bring the fetus to full term or choose to have an abortion. It's not just about being 'selfish;' some women and girls become pregnant as a result of rape or incest, cannot carry the fetus due to medical and/or genetic threats to both the mother and the fetus, because they cannot physically or economically take care... there are so many reasons why someone may decide or not decide to keep it. Sometimes its even the baby-daddy that is pressuring the mother to have an abortion when she may not want one.

The importance in the matter is that you don't have the right to tell someone what their options are. They deserve the right to make an honest and informed decision themselves and with their religious mentors and/or family members.
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So what you're saying is it should be the choice of both genders.
k.


Though I am extremely against it, I think it should be a choice of the child when he is grown.

It should be left alone until the human directly effected by it can decide whether or not to mutilate his own p***s.
I agree with you, and think that anyone considering it should have a counseling session before they do so. My BFF had it done when he was a teen, and he said he never regretted something so much in his life. The pain was excruciating for days, and he - unlike babies - had it done while anesthetized and could take painkillers.

Germany recently banned circumcision for non-consenting children except when medically necessary such as in the case of phimosis The Jews and Muslims there are outraged. Of all the things to agree on and support, they had to go with mutilating babies. emotion_facepalm Oh, if you want to kill your appetite, look up metzitzah b'peh.and tell me how that is not an outright sexual assault.


YEAH. I just looked up metzitzah b'peh the other day, and GOD that is like, SEXUAL ASSAULT.
Did you read about those babies who got herpes from the mohel and died as a result? Some of these guys are even refusing to tell the parents that there is a risk of infection that way, or even that they are using their mouths rather than a sterile instrument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/rabbis-will-defy-law-on-circumcision-ritual/
By the way, my first son was circumcised. I didnt know really what it was all about, I had no idea that the p***s of a man wasnt naturally shaped that way. I was very ignorant about circumcision. They came into the room with some papers for me to sign saying that circumcision has all these benefits and so on and so on. I went ahead and signed it and they cut my sons p***s in the hospital. Me my son and my bf are not jewish but they came in acting like it was so important. When I got my son back he had bloody gauze wrapped around it and he was in so much pain because his wounded parts had to be in a diaper where he had to pee on them. It was really horrible. After him I chose not to get it done for my other children, because once his p***s had healed the thing around the tip had a piece of skin still connected and before he becomes an adult I have to take him in to a specialist and get it corrected.
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So what you're saying is it should be the choice of both genders.
k.


Though I am extremely against it, I think it should be a choice of the child when he is grown.

It should be left alone until the human directly effected by it can decide whether or not to mutilate his own p***s.
I agree with you, and think that anyone considering it should have a counseling session before they do so. My BFF had it done when he was a teen, and he said he never regretted something so much in his life. The pain was excruciating for days, and he - unlike babies - had it done while anesthetized and could take painkillers.

Germany recently banned circumcision for non-consenting children except when medically necessary such as in the case of phimosis The Jews and Muslims there are outraged. Of all the things to agree on and support, they had to go with mutilating babies. emotion_facepalm Oh, if you want to kill your appetite, look up metzitzah b'peh.and tell me how that is not an outright sexual assault.


YEAH. I just looked up metzitzah b'peh the other day, and GOD that is like, SEXUAL ASSAULT.
Did you read about those babies who got herpes from the mohel and died as a result? Some of these guys are even refusing to tell the parents that there is a risk of infection that way, or even that they are using their mouths rather than a sterile instrument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/rabbis-will-defy-law-on-circumcision-ritual/
By the way, my first son was circumcised. I didnt know really what it was all about, I had no idea that the p***s of a man wasnt naturally shaped that way. I was very ignorant about circumcision. They came into the room with some papers for me to sign saying that circumcision has all these benefits and so on and so on. I went ahead and signed it and they cut my sons p***s in the hospital. Me my son and my bf are not jewish but they came in acting like it was so important. When I got my son back he had bloody gauze wrapped around it and he was in so much pain because his wounded parts had to be in a diaper where he had to pee on them. It was really horrible. After him I chose not to get it done for my other children, because once his p***s had healed the thing around the tip had a piece of skin still connected and before he becomes an adult I have to take him in to a specialist and get it corrected.
They did it to my friend's son without even asking her consent. She was outraged. They told her it was routine and she would have had to have given specific instructions that they not do so. Utterly ridiculous.
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I agree with you, and think that anyone considering it should have a counseling session before they do so. My BFF had it done when he was a teen, and he said he never regretted something so much in his life. The pain was excruciating for days, and he - unlike babies - had it done while anesthetized and could take painkillers.

Germany recently banned circumcision for non-consenting children except when medically necessary such as in the case of phimosis The Jews and Muslims there are outraged. Of all the things to agree on and support, they had to go with mutilating babies. emotion_facepalm Oh, if you want to kill your appetite, look up metzitzah b'peh.and tell me how that is not an outright sexual assault.


YEAH. I just looked up metzitzah b'peh the other day, and GOD that is like, SEXUAL ASSAULT.
Did you read about those babies who got herpes from the mohel and died as a result? Some of these guys are even refusing to tell the parents that there is a risk of infection that way, or even that they are using their mouths rather than a sterile instrument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/rabbis-will-defy-law-on-circumcision-ritual/
By the way, my first son was circumcised. I didnt know really what it was all about, I had no idea that the p***s of a man wasnt naturally shaped that way. I was very ignorant about circumcision. They came into the room with some papers for me to sign saying that circumcision has all these benefits and so on and so on. I went ahead and signed it and they cut my sons p***s in the hospital. Me my son and my bf are not jewish but they came in acting like it was so important. When I got my son back he had bloody gauze wrapped around it and he was in so much pain because his wounded parts had to be in a diaper where he had to pee on them. It was really horrible. After him I chose not to get it done for my other children, because once his p***s had healed the thing around the tip had a piece of skin still connected and before he becomes an adult I have to take him in to a specialist and get it corrected.
They did it to my friend's son without even asking her consent. She was outraged. They told her it was routine and she would have had to have given specific instructions that they not do so. Utterly ridiculous.
My boyfriend said that I was so drugged up after the baby was born that I didnt know, but he said that it was infact a routine circumcision. He says that its routine in Virginia where we lived at the time. We were in newport news virginia when he was born. Then when we moved to northcarolina and my second child was born in monroe, they said that circumcision was just cosmetic and our second son wasnt able to get circumcised. Then we realized that the one who was circumcised was suffering alot more then the one who didnt get it done, so with our third child we had a choice but opted to not get it done.
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My uterus, my womb MY ******** DECISION.
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Okay. Here's my reply as civilly as I can phrase it: The woman has to carry and care for the fetus for nine months, which can be at her detriment. This detriment can be as simple as just not wanting a child or something potentially life threatening. As the one who has the most to lose in a pregnancy it seems perfectly right to let the woman make the final decision with what happens to her own body.
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I agree with you, and think that anyone considering it should have a counseling session before they do so. My BFF had it done when he was a teen, and he said he never regretted something so much in his life. The pain was excruciating for days, and he - unlike babies - had it done while anesthetized and could take painkillers.

Germany recently banned circumcision for non-consenting children except when medically necessary such as in the case of phimosis The Jews and Muslims there are outraged. Of all the things to agree on and support, they had to go with mutilating babies. emotion_facepalm Oh, if you want to kill your appetite, look up metzitzah b'peh.and tell me how that is not an outright sexual assault.


YEAH. I just looked up metzitzah b'peh the other day, and GOD that is like, SEXUAL ASSAULT.
Did you read about those babies who got herpes from the mohel and died as a result? Some of these guys are even refusing to tell the parents that there is a risk of infection that way, or even that they are using their mouths rather than a sterile instrument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/rabbis-will-defy-law-on-circumcision-ritual/
By the way, my first son was circumcised. I didnt know really what it was all about, I had no idea that the p***s of a man wasnt naturally shaped that way. I was very ignorant about circumcision. They came into the room with some papers for me to sign saying that circumcision has all these benefits and so on and so on. I went ahead and signed it and they cut my sons p***s in the hospital. Me my son and my bf are not jewish but they came in acting like it was so important. When I got my son back he had bloody gauze wrapped around it and he was in so much pain because his wounded parts had to be in a diaper where he had to pee on them. It was really horrible. After him I chose not to get it done for my other children, because once his p***s had healed the thing around the tip had a piece of skin still connected and before he becomes an adult I have to take him in to a specialist and get it corrected.
They did it to my friend's son without even asking her consent. She was outraged. They told her it was routine and she would have had to have given specific instructions that they not do so. Utterly ridiculous.
My boyfriend said that I was so drugged up after the baby was born that I didnt know, but he said that it was infact a routine circumcision. He says that its routine in Virginia where we lived at the time. We were in newport news virginia when he was born. Then when we moved to northcarolina and my second child was born in monroe, they said that circumcision was just cosmetic and our second son wasnt able to get circumcised. Then we realized that the one who was circumcised was suffering alot more then the one who didnt get it done, so with our third child we had a choice but opted to not get it done.
good lord

i should be able to carry a "DO NOT CIRCUMCISE MY KIDS" card in my wallet
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It takes two to tangle, so why does one person get the choice? Why can't the father have a say in his child's life? Is it selfish to say that men can't choose if their child dies or not? Do you think this is being sexist? Is it selfish for women to kill their child because they don't want to carry it for 9 months?

PLEASE, if you are going to debate, don't be childish with name calling or trying to belittle someone just because they have a difference in opinion. We can have a friendly discussion. If you don't like someone's answer, don't let it emotionally and mentally trouble you. Everyone is not always going to agree. That's something you'll have to get over.

i see what ur saying but the thing is.. the women is the one that has to carry it, the father doesnt. therefore the father can basically just walk away or run off wenever he wants with no worries. so realy the mother is the one that has to worry bout the baby.
because women are the ones that have to have the baby!! guys can have sex with whoever they want and get no reprecushons. it is not fair and thats why women should get to choose it is our bodies!
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Did you read about those babies who got herpes from the mohel and died as a result? Some of these guys are even refusing to tell the parents that there is a risk of infection that way, or even that they are using their mouths rather than a sterile instrument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/03/rabbis-will-defy-law-on-circumcision-ritual/
By the way, my first son was circumcised. I didnt know really what it was all about, I had no idea that the p***s of a man wasnt naturally shaped that way. I was very ignorant about circumcision. They came into the room with some papers for me to sign saying that circumcision has all these benefits and so on and so on. I went ahead and signed it and they cut my sons p***s in the hospital. Me my son and my bf are not jewish but they came in acting like it was so important. When I got my son back he had bloody gauze wrapped around it and he was in so much pain because his wounded parts had to be in a diaper where he had to pee on them. It was really horrible. After him I chose not to get it done for my other children, because once his p***s had healed the thing around the tip had a piece of skin still connected and before he becomes an adult I have to take him in to a specialist and get it corrected.
They did it to my friend's son without even asking her consent. She was outraged. They told her it was routine and she would have had to have given specific instructions that they not do so. Utterly ridiculous.
My boyfriend said that I was so drugged up after the baby was born that I didnt know, but he said that it was infact a routine circumcision. He says that its routine in Virginia where we lived at the time. We were in newport news virginia when he was born. Then when we moved to northcarolina and my second child was born in monroe, they said that circumcision was just cosmetic and our second son wasnt able to get circumcised. Then we realized that the one who was circumcised was suffering alot more then the one who didnt get it done, so with our third child we had a choice but opted to not get it done.
good lord

i should be able to carry a "DO NOT CIRCUMCISE MY KIDS" card in my wallet
same hospital that circumcised my child also gave me an episiotomy you know when they use a scalple to cut your v****a to get the baby out instead of letting it naturally stretch? I had no say in that at all, I told them that I did not want that. They told my boyfriend to go hold my hand and did it while he wasnt looking.
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Okay. Here's my reply as civilly as I can phrase it: The woman has to carry and care for the fetus for nine months, which can be at her detriment. This detriment can be as simple as just not wanting a child or something potentially life threatening. As the one who has the most to lose in a pregnancy it seems perfectly right to let the woman make the final decision with what happens to her own body.
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It takes two to tangle, so why does one person get the choice? Why can't the father have a say in his child's life? Is it selfish to say that men can't choose if their child dies or not? Do you think this is being sexist? Is it selfish for women to kill their child because they don't want to carry it for 9 months?

PLEASE, if you are going to debate, don't be childish with name calling or trying to belittle someone just because they have a difference in opinion. We can have a friendly discussion. If you don't like someone's answer, don't let it emotionally and mentally trouble you. Everyone is not always going to agree. That's something you'll have to get over.


so........................................................................................................


have you ever concidered the fact that the father of the relation ship may or may not try to convince his girlfriend/wife/etc to have or not have the baby?


Yes, but I'm not talking about that. People are saying that it's only a women's right, men should not have a say in it. That's what I'm talking about.

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