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God Emperor Akhenaton
And how do you know they aren't bought off? Especially Cnet out of all people.
Because many would rather quit than compromise their integrity.

CBS has nothing to do with the editorial process at CNET. The content you find in their reviews did not go through some corporate filter. But CBS did force them to take something down that CBS did not wish to promote.

I think that story highlights both sides of this: there ARE forces that want to shape public opinion and influence it in some way (hell, that's advertising in a nutshell) but not all people through which that happens will sit idly by.

If you have a problem with review sites then I would again recommend Anandtech. There is no "points" system (stars, numbers, whatever) as the exact number of points a given product should be awarded is difficult to determine and kind of abstract; how many negative points is that flaw worth? Or is it a small enough issue to not warranty any deductions? And in whose opinion? Anandtech expects you the reader to read their review - as you should do with ANY review - and form your own opinion based on their findings.

But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
Minion4Hire
But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
I'm starting to think he's just incapable of reasoning and logic. You can't have this kind of opinion and cling to it so tightly in the face of logic without being incapable of critical thinking.

At least, I don't think it's possible.
psychic stalker
Minion4Hire
But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
I'm starting to think he's just incapable of reasoning and logic. You can't have this kind of opinion and cling to it so tightly in the face of logic without being incapable of critical thinking.

At least, I don't think it's possible.

So then are you done?
God Emperor Akhenaton
psychic stalker
Minion4Hire
But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
I'm starting to think he's just incapable of reasoning and logic. You can't have this kind of opinion and cling to it so tightly in the face of logic without being incapable of critical thinking.

At least, I don't think it's possible.

So then are you done?
I'm done. You're a complete waste of my time, and you are incapable of understanding formal logic or statistics. I conclude, therefore, that you are a troll or, if not, are incapable of critical thinking. In either case, you're a waste of everyone's time and not worthy of anyone's attention.

And if you are a troll, kudos, by the way. I have never in my life seen a more successful troll.
Saruwatari Kooji's avatar

Friendly Phantom

God Emperor Akhenaton
psychic stalker
Minion4Hire
But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
I'm starting to think he's just incapable of reasoning and logic. You can't have this kind of opinion and cling to it so tightly in the face of logic without being incapable of critical thinking.

At least, I don't think it's possible.

So then are you done?


With dealing with your flaming and trolling...yes.

Are we going to stop calling you out when you're wrong, no. If you're wrong, we'll tell you and provide the evidence to support our position. Fight with it all you want, but you've shown you have zero comprehension of reasoning and logic.

We don't care that you hold ASUS in high regard, the problem is how close minded you are about it. HP isn't perfect, we aren't even claiming it is. It has a 2 year failure rate of around 15%.

Guess what, ASUS has a 2 year failure rate of about 10%. It's not perfect either.

We don't want your anecdotal evidence, it cannot be verified. If your information can be verified through third party sources, fantastic, we'll yield. Although, you can't do that...you're paranoid that everyone in the world is merely praising the highest bidder. Go ahead, live in your fantasy world, we'll live in reality with logic and reason.
psychic stalker
God Emperor Akhenaton
psychic stalker
Minion4Hire
But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
I'm starting to think he's just incapable of reasoning and logic. You can't have this kind of opinion and cling to it so tightly in the face of logic without being incapable of critical thinking.

At least, I don't think it's possible.

So then are you done?
I'm done. You're a complete waste of my time, and you are incapable of understanding formal logic or statistics. I conclude, therefore, that you are a troll or, if not, are incapable of critical thinking. In either case, you're a waste of everyone's time and not worthy of anyone's attention.

And if you are a troll, kudos, by the way. I have never in my life seen a more successful troll.

Good. Now stop quoting my posts.
psychic stalker
Minion4Hire
But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
I'm starting to think he's just incapable of reasoning and logic. You can't have this kind of opinion and cling to it so tightly in the face of logic without being incapable of critical thinking.

At least, I don't think it's possible.
I don't know if he's incapable, but I don't think he is aware of the concept.

....I keep telling myself to stop, but the stupid just keeps drawing me back in....

God Emperor Akhenaton
Saruwatari Kooji
No...not really. They produce more systems than other manufacturers, that simply means you will see a higher number of their machines failing. Simply because they produce more. Some of their lines have inherent issues, although that is primarily with their cheaper lines. Again, if you do something on the cheap corners will get cut...thus leading to various failures.

It is simply a matter of numbers.

The ratio is too high for that excuse.
WHAT RATIO???

Some undefined imaginary number based on your own personal, biased, limited, flawed experiences?

How many of which products has your store sold? If you work for a large retailer (ie. BestBuy) then 90% of the hardware you see was something purchased at your store. What is the ratio of systems sold at your store by brand? Don't pull it from your a** imagination, or what you WANT to believe, find actual numbers. What about product sold 2-3 years ago? Which is the bulk of what you will be servicing. How many of those are HP? How many were ASUS? How many of those systems are still working? How many were serviced directly by the manufacturer? How many users had them repaired by someone else? How many never even tried to pursue repair?

I can tell you right now that two years ago BestBuy was only just starting to carry meaningful stock of ASUS products. HP sales on the other hand would be almost 2:1 against all other brands combined. But most of these numbers are impossible to get. You'd need detailed POS information on all computers sold during that time and would need to survey every person involved with every purchase to know for certain what kind of failure/repair ratio you are ACTUALLY seeing in your region.

God Emperor Akhenaton
Saruwatari Kooji
Just as any of us could send you countless images of abandoned systems from nearly any manufacturer...

Except Asus.
.....because there isn't a plethora of five year old ASUS systems in North America.... period. There are plenty of HPs though. And when the warranty has expired on any computer, would you pay someone several hundred dollars to fix it? Or would you buy a new system for only a few hundred more? Some people don't want to invest any money in older computers. Other people will spend inordinate amounts for foolish reasons (sentiment, fear of change, whatever)

God Emperor Akhenaton
Saruwatari Kooji
The frequency of failure still just comes down to the amount they produce. Go back when Dell was the top manufacturer...there was countless cases of Dells failing. When a company is producing higher numbers of something, the number of failures is higher...

Even during the time that Dell flooded the Pentium 4 market, I still see very few of those machines compared to a lot of others.
Dell was at their peak in the early 2000s. We're literally talking TEN YEARS AGO.

There are not a lot of ten year old computers still in use. The Core 2 architecture was released in 2006. There are not even a lot of +6 year old computers still in use. They exist, but you won't see a lot of them because most people are intelligent enough to throw them away when they fail instead of getting them repaired.

There's also the factor that those users are less likely to bring them to you because they didn't buy it from you - Dells that old could only be purchased directly from Dell. You're just as good a place to bring them as any if they did wish to pursue repair, at which point the reputation of Geek Squad or whoever will weigh into that decision as well.

God Emperor Akhenaton
Saruwatari Kooji
You keep saying this, over and over. You're paranoid and pessimistic, that's all. People are not always inherently evil, and not everyone is driven by money.

I would say cautious instead of paranoid. And pessimism keeps someone safe because people are out to harm others and the alliance between customer and sales is a fragile one at best. Because when it comes to the realm of money, someone has to gain money by taking it from someone else. That means when money is involved, you always have to be aware.
No. There's cautious, and then there's you.

But seriously, sales staff at Best Buy et all are FAR less trustworthy than, say, HP's website. Or for that matter, CNET reviews. As you just said, "when money is involved, you always have to be aware" but if someone is willing to trust some kid at Best Buy who wants to sell computers because he likes to play Minecraft then they are about to lose a lot of money on something that likely is not suited for them.

God Emperor Akhenaton
Saruwatari Kooji
It's true with cars, it's true with computers...hell, you'd be hard pressed to find an industry that it isn't true.

A 1978 Toyota that never had an oil change can still be around like it drove off the lot today
No. No. Just no. Quit the hyperbolic bullshit.

Saruwatari Kooji
If one isn't planning on their product becoming obsolete, they will quickly be in a world of hurt. If you don't better your product, someone else will.

With computers, planned obsolescence made it so that computers happen to be the most wasteful product on Earth which happens to contain lead, mercury, lithium and other toxins harmful to the environment and your health. And when someone wants to hold on to an XP machine from 2003, tough s**t, it's only useful for a year and a half now. That is wasteful and it harms the consumer.A computer is useful as long as someone still finds it useful. Barring hard drives and fans failing (and batteries/AC adapters with laptops) computers tend to last a long, long time. A two year old computer is going to stupendously outperform a ten year old computer though, which tends to make people want to buy new hardware. Also, that ten year old computer having never been serviced at some point is very unlikely, otherwise it has seen extremely light use over its lifetime. Add to this that failure rates of computer hardware has actually dropped over the years.

But Moore's law predicts a doubling of computing performance every 18 months. If someone has a two year old computer that they did not purchase an extended warranty for, and it fails, are they honestly going to spend money fixing it? A computer of equivalent performance would cost them less money now than it did two years ago, and they could now easily get a more powerful system.

Of all industries, personal computing does not require "planned" or intentional obsolescence by the manufacturers. The rate of change and progress of the industry as a whole takes care of that for them. If anything, if manufacturers don't adapt and change fast enough with the rest of the industry (ie. Dell) they can end up being left in the dust.

Come now. This is just getting silly.
God Emperor Akhenaton
psychic stalker
God Emperor Akhenaton
psychic stalker
Minion4Hire
But I'm done here. You're just an HP hate machine. I don't even "like" HP (not that I dislike them) but I will stand up against your senseless hatred of them and your idolatry of ASUS.
I'm starting to think he's just incapable of reasoning and logic. You can't have this kind of opinion and cling to it so tightly in the face of logic without being incapable of critical thinking.

At least, I don't think it's possible.

So then are you done?
I'm done. You're a complete waste of my time, and you are incapable of understanding formal logic or statistics. I conclude, therefore, that you are a troll or, if not, are incapable of critical thinking. In either case, you're a waste of everyone's time and not worthy of anyone's attention.

And if you are a troll, kudos, by the way. I have never in my life seen a more successful troll.

Good. Now stop quoting my posts.
Don't dare think this means you've "won." It only means that I'm sick of arguing with you when it's clear you aren't capable of higher thought.
Minion4Hire
But Moore's law predicts a doubling of computing performance every 18 months.
Common misconception: Moore's law applies to the number of transistors (read: transistor density and ALU parallelism/width) on an integrated circuit. It has little to do with performance and everything to do with the amount of complexity. It so happens that performance tends to improve generally in proportion to complexity, but not in lockstep.

Incidentally, recent estimates seem to indicate this year as the "end" of Moore's Law, where the doubling will continue only every 3 years or so for the next few years.

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