Sticky: Official Twilight Series Discussion - Books!

[Mankind Member]

Okay, so I'm not a pure Twilight fan, and have only read the first and second books, but I still enjoy the series. This has been making me wonder since the very beginning: Why does Edward love Bella? There really is no reason why he should love her--she's described as not that cute, sort of Tomboyish, and there is nothing really written in the book that describes how fun/sweet/awesome/etc that she is to Edward that would actually attract him to her in the first place.

The only reasons I was able to come up with were that he loves her scent, and he can't read her mind. But that doesn't seem like that would make a relationship grow strong and last.

Personally, I believe the movie to be a bit of a let-down. After all they hype and everyone pre-ordering their tickets, it was one of the WORST movies I have ever seen--I thought the plot was okay and that it flowed pretty smoothly; although I felt that had I not read the series, I would have wondered how they went from loathing each other to in love with each other. Not to mention that that was a little confusing--the cast was bad! Robert Pattinson is the last thing from "perfect" that I can ever imagine--why didn't they just go with Tom Sturridge in the first place? In addition, Bella was too pretty.

Could Twilight be polluting the minds of naive teenage girls? If you read the book and take everything for exactly as it's written on the page--Edward is a stalker and he wants to kill her in the beginning. Could this be sending the wrong message to the girls who use this book practically as their dating bible? Personally, if I woke up and a guy I didn't know so well was standing at the foot of my bed--the last thing I would do is fall in love with him!

I recently found some comments here, toward the bottom of the page, that suggest that the plot of Twilight (as well as some dialogue and scenes) could've been plagiarized from the Vampire Diaries series written by L.J. Smith.

Some excerpts from the comments:

J. Wilson:

"Not only are they similar in plot and with respect to mythical creatures but Twilight steals characters, events and even dialogue!!!"

"The iconic Meadow scene from Twilight = the scene with Stefan and Damon (he rips a tree from the ground and whips around the forest to show his spead and stregnth)"

"The ballet studio with the mirrors where James waits for Bella = a dream where Elena is walking down a mirrored hall to meet Damon (both the bad guys)"

Kate L:

"Both feature a female protagonist who falls in love with a Vampire who is actually hundreds of years old, but pretends to be a normal teen, who is incredibly good looking, strong, good senses ect… Both try and only feed off animals, leave humans in peace and try to be good. Both are morally guilty, and consider themselves evil. Both are incredibly drawn to the female protagonist, like they are soulmates, but at first try to hold back to protect her."

"The plot in both books features a strong evil vampire who wants the female protagonist, who is madly in love with a weak good vampire."

"This is just what I came up with in 10 minutes, the similarities don’t stop there. Some of these things are associated with the genre, but are still relevant, there are plenty of series’ for example, the Vampire beach series that avoid these cliches."



Just thought it would be interesting to discuss, especially if anybody has read the Vampire Diaries and can provide further insight.

socialblasphemy

*SPOILER*
In Breaking Dawn, Bella and Jake fall in love and kiss, but isn't it strange that Bella does this with Jake when she supposedly is in love (which is what we're led to believe through her constant babble) with Edward? Isn't it confusing as to how she can love two beings who completely hate each other based on race.

lil mizz cutie 1436

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>>>Discuss!<<<

exclaim All opinions are encouraged, as long as they're complete, constructed, thoughts. Please don't say "NAHA TWILIGHT BLOWS >:O" Because I will report you 3nodding Please try to keep responses at least 3 sentences long--or at least make sure you have some useful input to add into this debate.

Also: Always looking for new topics to discuss! PM me another Twilight topic and I just might add it to the list biggrin (I'll add your name in bold below your topic)

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[Lapinporokoira]

Edward and Bella's relationship (if you could call it that) is based on extenuating curcumstances and shallow reasoning.

Bella latched onto Edward because he seemed different, was good-looking and avoided her. No-one puts Baby Bella in the corner! So of course she feels personally affronted that this "hawt" guy is patently ignoring her and she can't have that. I think Bella actually enjoys being the centre of attention and brings to mind that saying aboutb the lady doth protest too much. She WANTS Edward because she can't have him.

Meanwhile Edward's interest lies in the fact she smells super tasty and can't help himself getting a whiff of her all the time. Of course with her seeking him like a b***h on heat he finds her too easy a meal to avoid.

So that's their relationship in a nutshell. Bella gets what she wants (namely a hot boyfriend to tell her what to do) and Edward gets his own tastySmell puppet.

[ryan8985]

i love the twlight books!!!!!!!i dont really know why he fell for her but the twlight books are the best books ever read them all!!!!!!!

[CaligirlXOXO]

it is cool

[dolly14]

Dolly is saving her spot to make a long reply on the topic of Edward and Bella's relationship. She wishes to finish typing it up on word document due taking her sister to singing lessons. And yes she plans to make it long and detailed.

Too stay on topic she replies, "Twilight was not good... not at all." That is all she says.


Edward and Bella’s Relationship

Edward, a sparkle fairy, happens to be a vampire. Therefore he is addicted to scents and smells because of his predatory instincts – if he has any – and Bella has a certain smell about her. Now I personally would think, Ew… she must really smell! – But no. This is wholly untrue because it is of course the scent of her blood that Edward is addicted to. This is where their relationship begins, really begins. Not this true love s**t so many are using to justify their relationship; rather the predatory instincts of a true hunter – scratching off the sparkles of course.

Bella, a dimwitted girl, becomes obsessed with Edward because no one can get close to him. Thinking she can change him and make him hers. It becomes this whole possessive game of how can I get him? I don’t give a care if people say, “Well he is forbidden and hot.” Yes in a way it is a bit forbidden, but she doesn’t know he is forbidden in the first book – the reader already knows this because of the back where it is obviously printed that Edward is a “vampire”. It is this unspoken challenge that is stated when she is introduced to the Forks clichés. It is this challenge that she feels she must take up and therefore she wishes to get the guy that no one else can get. This may be because of the area she grew up in where she was a failure and she wishes to be a success.

Edward, a Gary-Stu, then contemplates getting Bella when she happens to sit too close to him in Biology class. Of course he is sitting on the edge of his chair – probably freaking out about her ugliness that no one else can see – and planning on how to murder everyone in the room just to have Miss Bella-Sue all to himself and so Tyler can’t have her. Of course, again, it is this smell thing. As one can see, their entire relationship thus far from Edward’s point of view is based on the smell of her blood.

Bella, Meyer herself, sees the challenge and runs with it and because she can’t think she doesn’t know that Edward is truly disgusted with her and obsessed over her odd smell. She takes this challenge and begins to stalk Edward and wishing to make friends with Edward in Biology – again not noticing that he is about to kill her because she can’t read actions very well.

Let’s move away from individual and talk about them in a whole though. So starting with Edward’s stalking, now we all know that Edward watches over her at night – this is a ***** people. People think, “Oh, but he loves her and wishes to protect her.” THIS IS CALLED STALKING. Now that that is gotten along, back to their relationship. Why is Edward truly watching over her? Edward is watching over her like she is his booty, his treasure, his stash, and his drug. Of course! Bella is Edward’s drug! He wants to protect her because, again, he doesn’t want anyone to take his precious drug away.

“You are my brand of heroin,” Edward states. See there he is basically stating it out loud that he is addicted with her smell and that her smell is his drug. Her smell is all he wants. Because he stated her as “heroin” and no as “pot” or “nicotine” he is speaking about her strongly and that her smell is very, very addictive! This makes this true love crap people continue to spread around all wrong! He wants her for her blood, not for her mind.

Now onto Edward’s inability to read her mind, Bella has no mind to read. Because of this Edward is obsessed about trying to see if she has one, but we all know that she doesn’t. Anyways it is this sudden obsession with her smell and inability to read her mind is what draws him to her, no love and no other reason. Bella on the other hand, once she gets him, she is done with the challenge and plays the damsel in distress jumping off cliffs. She continues to show Edward that she truly has no brain because she gave up the challenge to get him – for which now she is challenging herself to get sex from him –and so Edward picks up the challenge to prove that Bella has a mind. It wasn’t until she was turned into a vampire do we see that maybe she does, but by then she is lost to more Mary-Sueness.

Anyways, I could go on for one more page, but I must draw this to a closing. As we just discovered, Bella runs after Edward because of an unspoken challenge because no one else has ever had Edward. While Edward has a mess of things about him running to her, which include her strange smell, his need to protect his blood, and his inability to read the mindless girl. Nothing shows me that these two truly love one another because all their relationship is built upon greed, want, and challenges. Where is there love when all the guy wants is your blood, while the girl is going after him because of a challenge?

Note: I did not edit anything, it is all right there. If you made it this far, I'm thinking you read it. If you don't, then please do. Yes and remember that I tried to attempt to organize my thoughts and I hope that they were organized.

[ashgirl09]

The Twilight series is one of the best books series i've ever read and thats saying something cuz ive read a lot but people mite say that edward and bellas relationship is complicated its not its jsut that he loves her and she loves him people do anything for love heart

[Saraneth of Aziraphale]

The Twilight series is made of fail. =|

And its fandom has made me lose hope in humanity. =[

((Well I havn't lost ALL hope. Just being dramatic. =P ))

[Bella1516]

Edward loves Bella because she isn't like the other girls. He is attracted to her scent, but he loves her because she different. She noticed things about him that she shouldn't and also, she didn't run and hide when she found out that he was a vampire. She embraced that aspect of him. Edward thinks of himself as a monster, but Bella doesn't see it that way and she tries to make him see himself the way she does.

[Karura Koremanu]

The books are poorly written; my 12 year old cousin writes better stories. They're full of purple prose and some parts are so pathetic I can't help but laugh.

Bella is the biggest Sue to ever Sue her way down Sue Street.

Edward is a creepy, freaky stalker who I would Falcon Punch if I ever knew he was watching me sleep.

Edward and Bella together have all the chemistry of a piece of cardboard. I don't find them, or any of the characters, intriguing or even remotely interesting.

It's rabid fanbase makes me weep for humanity.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg for reasons I hate Twilight.

[Soul-Kit]

My opinion is that Twilight = NO

Bella is superficial beyond belief. She likes Edward because he's pretty and she's pretty, even though she totally thinks she isn't (not), and she can relate to him (what?). There's a part in the book where Edward says something stupid like "I can see that you're suffering more than you let on" or something like that, which is complete bs. Bella has no problems in her life, and if she does, they're ones that she created herself or that she thinks she has. SHE HAS NO PROBLEMS. Then there's the fact that she's apparently soo self-sacrificing, when she's not. She throws herself into danger for No. Freaking. Reason. This is only part of the reason she bothers me... I'm not going to get into how much Edward bothers me but the gist of it is: He is an emotionless brick. He likes her because she smells good, and she's pretty.

Now for the book. There is no chemistry between the characters. It is filled with nothing, nothing, and then a bit of plot. The characters are all two-dimensional, and they're almost all the same. I could go on, but I want this up first so I can argue with someone's ideas.

Also, Breaking Dawn was possibly the worst.

[The Retanator]

What I don't like about the books is that I think they're sexist.

Why? Because every female wants the same thing-- a family, children, a big strong man to love them, and are willing to do unthinkable things for it. ((Well, Meyer never talked about what Jessica and Angela want, but every female she did show wanted the same thing))

Rosalie-- Rosalie wanted someone to love her and babies and a family. Of course, this is also due to the role of women in the time period that she was raised in, but even as she experiences a longer, different version of life that spans seventy years, she still wants children so badly that she will result to MURDER to get a child. Edward and Jacob prove that in BD as Jacob thinks snide thoughts about Rosalie, and Edward reads Rose's thoughts and tells Jacob that he was correct.

She saved Emmett because he remotely resembled the baby of a friend that she used to envy, because that friend had a home, a baby, and a big strong man to provide for her. Emmett goes on to be one of THE strongest vampires. He also is shown later in BD to only talk about Rosalie when he's talking about sex. He never once calls her his angel or anything (like he does in Meyer's outtakes that tell his story about how he was changed)-- I don't think. He might have said something, but if he did, it wasn't anything big enough for me to actually REMEMBER, which proves my point.

Also, she doesn't even really save Emmett, because she does not trust herself to have the self-control to change him. Instead, she takes him to Carlisle, a big strong man with massive amounts of self control, because in Meyer's universe, the only people with self-control are the men.

Jasper has self control because he, although unstable and used to a diet of human blood, is around humans all the time, and even though it's really hard for him, he abstains. Even though there is at least one girl on her period all the time at Forks High (if you think about it), and thus bleeding. Jasper smells the blood, and does nothing, because he has self-control.

And we all know Edward's self-control. He's trained himself to ignore the most potent smell of blood to him ever and be around Bella and love her, and even have sex with her.

Carlisle is the Vampire doctor-- the one who's around blood ALL DAY LONG and has developed huge amounts of self control to deal with this.

None of the girls are portrayed as having self control. In fact, Alice is constantly being shown as having NO control over herself, going overboard, and over the top ALL THE TIME. But I'll get to her later.

Anyways, back to Rosalie. She's shown as only thinking about herself. This is showcased in Midnight Sun where Edward describes her thoughts as being a shallow pool because she is only concerned with how pretty she is. Yeah, I realize that there ARE women like that, but if you couple that with all the other women in the book who are only concerned with clothes and fashion, that really is demeaning.

Alice-- Alice says that in one of the books that the minute she opened her eyes after becoming a vampire, she saw Jasper's face in her mind, and knows she's destined for Jasper, who's a warrior. AKA a big strong man. So she doesn't worry, and instead goes to wait for him, and subsequently, she's waiting for her chance to join a peaceful family led by a big strong man.

Alice shows that all women are supposed to do is sit around like Rapunzel in a tower and wait for a guy to come by and save us. Alice had the potential to be a really cool character, but Meyer turned her into someone who would sit around, waiting for a guy, and when he shows up, she's supposed to reform him and turn him into a good person. After she does that, she, like Rosalie, is concerned about clothes and fashion ALL THE TIME. Her mind is filled with having sleepovers, and throwing parties, and fluff. The only time it's shown that she has something REAL on her mind is at the VERY END of BD, when she goes to help her family.

Esme-- She tries to kill herself because her baby is stillborn. Either that, or it dies shortly after it was born. I think it says somewhere that her husband used to beat her. Or, otherwise, it was in a fan fiction that I read. But let's just go with that, and say that he did beat her. She threw herself off a CLIFF (aka TRIED TO KILL HERSELF) because she did not get the ideal family, husband, and child.

And then Carlisle comes out of no where and saves her and turns her into a vampire, and she lives happily ever after with a bunch of "Kids" who aren't even kids because they're all like 70 years old, which fulfills her desire to be a mother. And it shows that all she wants to do is be a mother figure.

I can understand wanting to be a mom, because I want to be a mom, and I'm sure she's good at it, because she's helped stop these people from murdering innocent humans, along with Carlisle. However, I find it ridiculous that she will KILL herself if she doesn't get to be a mom.

Esme teaches us that "If you don't get your goal, go kill yourself, girls." You don't see any of the men throwing themselves off cliffs if they don't meet THEIR goals.