W4NT0N 50UP
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Heckler
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- Posted: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 04:31:16 +0000
You can't just give (stupid) support for your one rebuttal and then say, "Okay job done, I win!" That's not how conversation works. You give your opponent an opportunity to reply, as I have done. If you're not polite enough for that then I'm willing to let the last word be mine. (:
Well the conversation would go something like:
and then they'd find out one way or another. And yes, the kind of people who would be cruel enough to use their power to extort money are also probably people who would do nasty things to any squealers to keep the rest in line. If they leave them be after reporting one of theirs, they let everyone know that calling the police is a viable option and that's the last thing they want.
That's not how the criminal justice system works in any "civilized" society (and I imagine Republic City will be "civilized"). People are arrested, they're held in a temporary cell, they go to court, they plead their case, then if they're not acquitted they go to jail for a set amount of time. And I would not be surprised if there are bent cops among the police corps, even with Lin there. They're only human. And if it's not the cops then it's the judges and if not the judges then it's the guards. Basically any system is vulnerable due to human weakness.
Uhm, actually it's my understanding that anyone over a certain age can get a permit, with certain other restrictions depending on the state, and they get smuggled across borders as well so it's not like permits really matter as long as they're in circulation. Anyway imo bending can result in destruction as devastating as a bomb, so I stretched the analogy from guns to bombs.
And you said in your last post, "Unusual and awesome? No." They can't be both special and usual.
Uh, "air particles" are in the air so I'm going to say "fire out of thin air" is not a wildly inaccurate description. When I say gods I mean collectively in all mythologies. A lot of them had no power other than super strength or transformation. And pointing to one god and saying, "Look, someone with control over water!" kind of negates your point that bending isn't at least sort of god-like. And deity and god are the same thing.
I brought Iroh in because he is "legendary", which you said benders are not. He's just one example that I can think of off the top of my head that isn't an Avatar.
I suppose I should have reasoned that you're a bit too stupid to infer but irrigation IS basically used to "rain some water down on their crops once in a while" to "substitute nature", which you said with such a scoffing tone as if this was just so unbelievable.
You seem to be completely missing the point so I'll bold this for you:
Heavily militarized societies will value power so even during peace, those cultural values will not disappear and those who have power will be substantially more favored in job selection even when this power is irrelevant.
For a real world example, we know men and women are pretty much equal in all respects. But when a man and a woman are up for a job as an engineer, if there is no affirmative action policy, who will most likely be hired? Or, a man and a woman are up for a job as a primary school teacher, who will most likely to be hired? As the old adage goes, you get three guesses and the last two don't count. Old world values just don't go away as soon as human beings correct themselves.
And they were able to conquer the land because they used benders and their technology. Besides, who do you think was the most important part of their military, the firebenders or the regular guys?
I know they enjoy pro-bending, I enjoy it. I'm just being thorough, and pointing out another way benders dominate society.
And I named cities and civilizations named after one person, or a couple of people. If that isn't credit, I don't really know what is.
If you're getting confused, and you probably are because it seems like you have difficulty keeping up with arguments, whole populations do build cities but only one person (or a small group of people) are actually given credit for the city's existence. The same goes with almost anything that is discovered or invented. We only know the names of the head researcher, not the grad students who do the work. And in the Avatarverse those people who get the credit, the reputation, and the glory are mostly benders. Whether they deserve it or not is irrelevant to the fact that their names go down in records and the people who actually toiled away are going to be nothing but dust.
No, you're wrong there, people who do good things don't get statues because a lot of the time, their good things are greatly exaggerated or not done by them at all. Important people get statues. Yes, in the Avatarverse Aang, Zuko, and Toph were also very good people, but don't mistake statues as conferred on the best of us, because they aren't.
There aren't statues of the Mechanist, for example, who I'm certain contributed greatly to the building of Republic City, or Sokka, or a Kiyoshi Warrior. The big ones are all benders and the two people who are credited with making it happen are Aang and Zuko. Benders, like dead white men in our world, are credited with everything awesome that's ever happened and the rest are shafted by history. That isn't right, or fair, and it's understandable people would start becoming upset that they're basically being wiped from history.
And I'm sure it's very annoying when you have to think about things but please do make an effort.
And women still aren't equal to men and white people still have more rights now. But again, I expected you wouldn't know that.
Well, I can only go by what WE'VE seen, through their eyes, so I don't know how I'm a dumbass when that's the only perspective we're given and the only perspective we can argue from. Do you have a magical tv set that shows you the world of A:TLA or LoK from the eyes of anyone in the series?
We got a sample of a ton of different cultures in A:TLA and Korra and overwhelmingly their culture is bender-structured. And no, I do mean "prominently" as in, it's extremely ******** noticeable. I don't pick on you for your spelling, so that's quite low, especially when you're wrong anyway.
I haven't seen it so thanks for not marking that spoiler? I'll address this later but anyway, I'm guessing those men are highly trained, more than the average citizen is. So you're citing one extremely specific situation where a normal person can beat up a bender, which doesn't invalidate the fact that it's hardly likely that a non-bender can hold their own against a bender. That's like if a Victimization Survey report came out that said, "People are more likely to be killed or assaulted by people they know", and then you say, "Yes but I was mugged by a complete stranger at the corner store". That doesn't make the statement, "People are more likely to be killed or assaulted by people they know" untrue, it just means that your example was an unlikely occurrence.
If you give one average guy a gun and one average guy a spear, I can guess who'd be coming out alive from that one. (And saying "average guy with gun" is being generous, since benders are by their nature trained to use their weapon.)
No, I haven't seen poor benders, but I have seen lots and lots of poor non-benders so seeing one poor bender doesn't disprove my point. Statistics don't disappear when one or two or three or ten cases appear to not conform with them.
The White Lotus. And if there weren't gangs of benders, police wouldn't have to be benders, so I can see how someone could come to the conclusion "get rid of all benders". There will still be regular people who are criminals, but at least most people sort of feel they have a chance against them. (They don't, but at least they're not just 100% going to be ******** up.)
I am addressing every point you're making line-by-line. If anything, you are the one who isn't reading what I'm typing because you consistently miss the point. If you don't understand the argument, tell me so and I will clarify, rather than ignore it and continue to be aggressively dense.
Peasants can get a job but it won't be the same quality of job that a bender can (probably) get or else they wouldn't be peasants, obviously. They don't have social mobility, while it seems that benders do, even if it's only a little bit more. That is my entire point.
Well it kind of is valuable or else you wouldn't want it. Duh. You can't want it and think it's also worthless, that doesn't make any sense. Besides, the point of that exercise which you woefully missed is that benders are people who you, or anyone really, would want to be. That is value in itself, and it's important enough for them to have considerable leverage in almost any facet of life, because they're a special kind of person.
If you asked someone if they wanted to be beautiful, they'd say yes. Beauty is not the most important thing about a person, but it is still something people value, not in a monetary fashion (unless you're a pro-bender model or actor) but in a cultural and social way, the same way we value power or skill. Even if we don't acknowledge this in a conscious way, we know beauty gets us places we wouldn't make it if we were ugly, or average, the same way bending gets you places where your otherwise non-powered a** wouldn't go. Beautiful people can't really help that they're born beautiful, and I'm not saying "scar the pretty people", but I think even they can accept that they're somewhat better off than the average joe.
PyramidHead SHW
Yes, now how would the friends know where to attack if they have only noticed dissapearance? And there is no time slot between arrest and jail, since when you get arrested you get in a cop car and go straight to jail.
Teach that person a lesson for reporting to police? No. No one does that. Yeah, don't report crimes, what does that have to do with this?
Court? Some aren't taken to court yes, they are straight to JAIL.
Paying off judges? Paying off those types of police in the show? No.
Have you seen Toph's daughter?
Teach that person a lesson for reporting to police? No. No one does that. Yeah, don't report crimes, what does that have to do with this?
Court? Some aren't taken to court yes, they are straight to JAIL.
Paying off judges? Paying off those types of police in the show? No.
Have you seen Toph's daughter?
Well the conversation would go something like:
- A: Hey have you seen Z anywhere? He was supposed to gather some debt from that old lady and meet up tonight to fight that gang in the next district but the a*****e never showed.
B: That doesn't sound like him. Let's go ask around.
and then they'd find out one way or another. And yes, the kind of people who would be cruel enough to use their power to extort money are also probably people who would do nasty things to any squealers to keep the rest in line. If they leave them be after reporting one of theirs, they let everyone know that calling the police is a viable option and that's the last thing they want.
That's not how the criminal justice system works in any "civilized" society (and I imagine Republic City will be "civilized"). People are arrested, they're held in a temporary cell, they go to court, they plead their case, then if they're not acquitted they go to jail for a set amount of time. And I would not be surprised if there are bent cops among the police corps, even with Lin there. They're only human. And if it's not the cops then it's the judges and if not the judges then it's the guards. Basically any system is vulnerable due to human weakness.
PyramidHead SHW
Guns aren't just used by any body? I'm talking only HAND GUNS you dumb a**, for protection. And you have to get a permit.
I don't care if you would want to destroy guns, bombs, and missiles. I don't care if there are a FEW people who are with you on that sentiment.
I don't care if you would want to destroy guns, bombs, and missiles. I don't care if there are a FEW people who are with you on that sentiment.
PyramidHead SHW
Yes, you are using numbers to say benders are special? OF COURSE THEIR ******** SPECIAL THEY CAN BEND THE ELEMENTS.
PyramidHead SHW
Fire from thin air? Doubt it. Probably something with air particals or anything like that. That isn't godly. Yeah, the gods had control over OTHER things, and last I checked, Poseidon had control over water. A deity? No.
PyramidHead SHW
What does uncle Iroh being a general have to do with this? He was in the ******** army, that isn't "A BUNCH OF FOLLOWERS" in a god-like situation.
PyramidHead SHW
Yes I know what irrigation is. Care to finish that? What does that have to do with what I said? =)
PyramidHead SHW
Depending on the ******** job. You said earth benders can be tax auditors better because they can fling rocks at walls.
Heavily militarized societies will value power so even during peace, those cultural values will not disappear and those who have power will be substantially more favored in job selection even when this power is irrelevant.
For a real world example, we know men and women are pretty much equal in all respects. But when a man and a woman are up for a job as an engineer, if there is no affirmative action policy, who will most likely be hired? Or, a man and a woman are up for a job as a primary school teacher, who will most likely to be hired? As the old adage goes, you get three guesses and the last two don't count. Old world values just don't go away as soon as human beings correct themselves.
PyramidHead SHW
YOU are really dense.
It isn't "BENDERS" that started the wars. It was the fire NATION.
A sport? Yes you want random people to fling fire out of their bodies? They can't? OH. THATS WHY THEY USED BENDERS.
And normals enjoy it just as much watching.
It isn't "BENDERS" that started the wars. It was the fire NATION.
A sport? Yes you want random people to fling fire out of their bodies? They can't? OH. THATS WHY THEY USED BENDERS.
And normals enjoy it just as much watching.
I know they enjoy pro-bending, I enjoy it. I'm just being thorough, and pointing out another way benders dominate society.
PyramidHead SHW
Columbus? COLUMBUS WAS THE LEADER OF THE EXPEDITION. That's why.
Attach a name to? Benders as an name? This is completely different from what you said.
This is the WHOLE ******** POPULATION building cities. You are the only dense person here, and it's annoying...
Attach a name to? Benders as an name? This is completely different from what you said.
This is the WHOLE ******** POPULATION building cities. You are the only dense person here, and it's annoying...
If you're getting confused, and you probably are because it seems like you have difficulty keeping up with arguments, whole populations do build cities but only one person (or a small group of people) are actually given credit for the city's existence. The same goes with almost anything that is discovered or invented. We only know the names of the head researcher, not the grad students who do the work. And in the Avatarverse those people who get the credit, the reputation, and the glory are mostly benders. Whether they deserve it or not is irrelevant to the fact that their names go down in records and the people who actually toiled away are going to be nothing but dust.
PyramidHead SHW
I'm saying, the people who did GOOD THINGS to be REMEMBERED FOR get statues. Can be non benders or benders.
It proves your argument a piece of s**t.
No it isn't like saying "all the people in the important people in the world are white and male just because they are," A history? This is the present, not the past dumb a**.
Yes, women had less rights a long time ago.
Yes, whites had more rights a long time ago.
What does the past have to do with this?
Nothing? It's nothing like saying that, you dense annoyance. =)
It proves your argument a piece of s**t.
No it isn't like saying "all the people in the important people in the world are white and male just because they are," A history? This is the present, not the past dumb a**.
Yes, women had less rights a long time ago.
Yes, whites had more rights a long time ago.
What does the past have to do with this?
Nothing? It's nothing like saying that, you dense annoyance. =)
There aren't statues of the Mechanist, for example, who I'm certain contributed greatly to the building of Republic City, or Sokka, or a Kiyoshi Warrior. The big ones are all benders and the two people who are credited with making it happen are Aang and Zuko. Benders, like dead white men in our world, are credited with everything awesome that's ever happened and the rest are shafted by history. That isn't right, or fair, and it's understandable people would start becoming upset that they're basically being wiped from history.
And I'm sure it's very annoying when you have to think about things but please do make an effort.
And women still aren't equal to men and white people still have more rights now. But again, I expected you wouldn't know that.
PyramidHead SHW
By the main characters eyes? OHHHHHHHHHH thank you.
You just proved what a dumb a** you are. You are only going off what YOU have seen. You, as I said before, have seen not even a fraction of the earths statues.
And don't you mean predominantly? Nice job on your words.
You just proved what a dumb a** you are. You are only going off what YOU have seen. You, as I said before, have seen not even a fraction of the earths statues.
And don't you mean predominantly? Nice job on your words.
We got a sample of a ton of different cultures in A:TLA and Korra and overwhelmingly their culture is bender-structured. And no, I do mean "prominently" as in, it's extremely ******** noticeable. I don't pick on you for your spelling, so that's quite low, especially when you're wrong anyway.
PyramidHead SHW
Now how is it "just dumb."?
There is a high chance. Haven't you seen Korra EP 3? The guys whooped Korra and Mako with hand to hand combat. Add a spear to that.
The fire nation is a good EXAMPLE.
You only haven't SEEN the poor benders, so shut up. =)
There is a high chance. Haven't you seen Korra EP 3? The guys whooped Korra and Mako with hand to hand combat. Add a spear to that.
The fire nation is a good EXAMPLE.
You only haven't SEEN the poor benders, so shut up. =)
If you give one average guy a gun and one average guy a spear, I can guess who'd be coming out alive from that one. (And saying "average guy with gun" is being generous, since benders are by their nature trained to use their weapon.)
No, I haven't seen poor benders, but I have seen lots and lots of poor non-benders so seeing one poor bender doesn't disprove my point. Statistics don't disappear when one or two or three or ten cases appear to not conform with them.
PyramidHead SHW
Members of an elite organization? What ******** elite organization?
There's just gangs and police, which is logical.
There's just gangs and police, which is logical.
The White Lotus. And if there weren't gangs of benders, police wouldn't have to be benders, so I can see how someone could come to the conclusion "get rid of all benders". There will still be regular people who are criminals, but at least most people sort of feel they have a chance against them. (They don't, but at least they're not just 100% going to be ******** up.)
PyramidHead SHW
Yes I'm reading what I'm typing. Are you? Nah, doubt it.
THE PEASANTS CAN ******** DO THAT TO. They can go get A JOB, just like the benders.
THE PEASANTS CAN ******** DO THAT TO. They can go get A JOB, just like the benders.
Peasants can get a job but it won't be the same quality of job that a bender can (probably) get or else they wouldn't be peasants, obviously. They don't have social mobility, while it seems that benders do, even if it's only a little bit more. That is my entire point.
PyramidHead SHW
Obviously everyone would choose to be a bender considering you can control elements, that is the best question to show how stupid you are.
It has nothing to do with value.
You would still want to be a bender no matter what.
It has nothing to do with value.
You would still want to be a bender no matter what.
Well it kind of is valuable or else you wouldn't want it. Duh. You can't want it and think it's also worthless, that doesn't make any sense. Besides, the point of that exercise which you woefully missed is that benders are people who you, or anyone really, would want to be. That is value in itself, and it's important enough for them to have considerable leverage in almost any facet of life, because they're a special kind of person.
If you asked someone if they wanted to be beautiful, they'd say yes. Beauty is not the most important thing about a person, but it is still something people value, not in a monetary fashion (unless you're a pro-bender model or actor) but in a cultural and social way, the same way we value power or skill. Even if we don't acknowledge this in a conscious way, we know beauty gets us places we wouldn't make it if we were ugly, or average, the same way bending gets you places where your otherwise non-powered a** wouldn't go. Beautiful people can't really help that they're born beautiful, and I'm not saying "scar the pretty people", but I think even they can accept that they're somewhat better off than the average joe.
