The End of the Avatar Franchise

[gomenasigh]

Fia FlaimHart

Well there's always the comics right?

yep, a chapter is being released today actually

[Arcoon Effox]

Remind myself that there were worse sequels, which shat all over their predecessors even more than Korra did to AtLA, and take comfort in that.

[i-viet-james]

Arcoon Effox

Remind myself that there were worse sequels, which shat all over their predecessors even more than Korra did to AtLA, and take comfort in that.

If you are saying that Legend of Korra is a "terrible" addition to the Avatar franchise or any sequel to any franchise, then you aren't a true fan that is loyal to his fandom. I know at times we think that some sequels aren't as good as the original, but it does add to the story, and we do get more of our favorite show! So unless it literally "shats" all over what you love dearly, you should be happy for what your given. (For example: the Star Wars fandom)

[i-viet-james]

Shisei Tenshi

I will always be a fan of this series even after it ends. I plan on getting all the DVDs and eventually the comics so I can rewatch/reread it over and over again. The art and storyline is beautiful and they characters are all memorable in their own ways. Watching everyone grow up over time and adapt to everything that comes their way is amazing. By far one of my favorite series.

I'll probably do the same also, and hopefully ,when I grow old and have children, I'll share it with them.

[Arcoon Effox]

i-viet-james

Arcoon Effox

Remind myself that there were worse sequels, which shat all over their predecessors even more than Korra did to AtLA, and take comfort in that.

If you are saying that Legend of Korra is a "terrible" addition to the Avatar franchise or any sequel to any franchise, then you aren't a true fan that is loyal to his fandom.

Your No True Scotsman fallacy is both fallacious and a little strange. Frankly, I wonder if you even understand what that word even means.

"Fandom" (consisting of fan and the suffix -dom, as in kingdom) is a term used to refer to a subculture composed of fans characterized by a feeling of empathy and camaraderie with others who share a common interest - in this case, the Avatar universe. Bearing that in mind, I fail to see how not liking a sequel/spin-off which I find to be both inferior and disappointing when compared to its predecessor could be considered showing disloyalty to anybody. I owe no obligation whatsoever to such people (or the franchise itself, as it's an intangible thing), since it's not like I ever swore kind of oath to like every aspect of it. Furthermore, it's not like doing so is mandatory for being a fan of something.

For instance, I'm a huge Pokemon fan, but I don't play the TCG or any of the spin-off games, and even think that several of them are awful games. Hells, I think that the Gen3 games have an awful plot, and are generally the worst games in the core series - but harboring such sentiments doesn't somehow make me "disloyal" to anything.

i-viet-james

I know at times we think that some sequels aren't as good as the original, but it does add to the story, and we do get more of our favorite show!

Just because something is added to a story doesn't mean that the story is somehow improved by it, or that the addition was needed in the first place.

i-viet-james

...unless it literally "shats" all over what you love dearly, you should be happy for what your given.

Eureka Seven AO (the example I gave in the above link) literally shat all over the original series. It stripped the heroes of their incredibly hard-earned happy ending, and also vindicated what the show's villain was saying all along.

Korra wasn't as big a slap to the face as all of that was, but there have been plenty of moments throughout which have made me say, "How in the infernal blue ******** could anyone think that was a good idea?!"

...Oh, and the idea that I should "be happy for what I'm given" is a pretty demeaning one. I've already talked about it, and nothing more need be said, but seriously, dude, that's a rotten attitude to have about things.

i-viet-james

(For example: the Star Wars fandom)

Methinks by this you're referring to Star Wars fans who hate the Prequel Trilogy. Funny you should mention that, actually, since including Raava in the story is basically the same thing as Star Wars introducing Midi-chlorians...

I don't hate Episodes 1-3 as much as some do, but I can see where people who do are coming from. The acting is garbage, the story is weaksauce at best, the overabundance of CG sets is just painful, and seeing pre-Darth Vader mope around like an emo kid and throw hissy fits - not to mention his ultimate reason for turning to the Dark Side - kind of ruined his image in some peoples' eyes.

Does that mean that if they're "true fans" of the series that they shouldn't complain about it? Hells no it doesn't. If anything, fans of a series should complain about when events in a follow-up to a series have an impact on factors from the original - especially when the sequel comes many years after the conclusion of the original, and the story is not in the hands of those who created the series. The idea that fans of something should just automatically like anything that has to do with that thing is both ridiculous and insulting.

[Riddling Genius]

Weren't they gonna make a sequel to the movie?

I know, it's really sad. . Though who knows, maybe years from now, they'll make something new for Avatar. Maybe another series or somethin'. Or maybe more comics?

[i-viet-james]

Arcoon Effox

i-viet-james

Arcoon Effox

Remind myself that there were worse sequels, which shat all over their predecessors even more than Korra did to AtLA, and take comfort in that.

If you are saying that Legend of Korra is a "terrible" addition to the Avatar franchise or any sequel to any franchise, then you aren't a true fan that is loyal to his fandom.

Your No True Scotsman fallacy is both fallacious and a little strange. Frankly, I wonder if you even understand what that word even means.

"Fandom" (consisting of fan and the suffix -dom, as in kingdom) is a term used to refer to a subculture composed of fans characterized by a feeling of empathy and camaraderie with others who share a common interest - in this case, the Avatar universe. Bearing that in mind, I fail to see how not liking a sequel/spin-off which I find to be both inferior and disappointing when compared to its predecessor could be considered showing disloyalty to anybody. I owe no obligation whatsoever to such people (or the franchise itself, as it's an intangible thing), since it's not like I ever swore kind of oath to like every aspect of it. Furthermore, it's not like doing so is mandatory for being a fan of something.

For instance, I'm a huge Pokemon fan, but I don't play the TCG or any of the spin-off games, and even think that several of them are awful games. Hells, I think that the Gen3 games have an awful plot, and are generally the worst games in the core series - but harboring such sentiments doesn't somehow make me "disloyal" to anything.

i-viet-james

I know at times we think that some sequels aren't as good as the original, but it does add to the story, and we do get more of our favorite show!

Just because something is added to a story doesn't mean that the story is somehow improved by it, or that the addition was needed in the first place.

i-viet-james

...unless it literally "shats" all over what you love dearly, you should be happy for what your given.

Eureka Seven AO (the example I gave in the above link) literally shat all over the original series. It stripped the heroes of their incredibly hard-earned happy ending, and also vindicated what the show's villain was saying all along.

Korra wasn't as big a slap to the face as all of that was, but there have been plenty of moments throughout which have made me say, "How in the infernal blue ******** could anyone think that was a good idea?!"

...Oh, and the idea that I should "be happy for what I'm given" is a pretty demeaning one. I've already talked about it, and nothing more need be said, but seriously, dude, that's a rotten attitude to have about things.

i-viet-james

(For example: the Star Wars fandom)

Methinks by this you're referring to Star Wars fans who hate the Prequel Trilogy. Funny you should mention that, actually, since including Raava in the story is basically the same thing as Star Wars introducing Midi-chlorians...

I don't hate Episodes 1-3 as much as some do, but I can see where people who do are coming from. The acting is garbage, the story is weaksauce at best, the overabundance of CG sets is just painful, and seeing pre-Darth Vader mope around like an emo kid and throw hissy fits - not to mention his ultimate reason for turning to the Dark Side - kind of ruined his image in some peoples' eyes.

Does that mean that if they're "true fans" of the series that they shouldn't complain about it? Hells no it doesn't. If anything, fans of a series should complain about when events in a follow-up to a series have an impact on factors from the original - especially when the sequel comes many years after the conclusion of the original, and the story is not in the hands of those who created the series. The idea that fans of something should just automatically like anything that has to do with that thing is both ridiculous and insulting.

You do have many good points made out, and color me impressed. Sorry, I shouldn't have judged you on something that I haven't watched my self (Eureka-Seven), but can you explain how introducing Raava is like introducing the Midi-chlorians. Also can you explain some moments where Legend of Korra made you say, "How in the infernal blue ******** could anyone think that was a good idea?" (I see many holes in the first two season, but not really the last two seasons by far.) Thank you for back something sensible, unlike others that replied (rudely) back to me at times.

[Captain Cheema]

How many episode are there? And would anyone recommend this as a really good anime?

[M e i]

Captain Cheema

How many episode are there? And would anyone recommend this as a really good anime?

Depends on your definition of anime.

The most common definition to my knowledge is anime = Japanese animation - in which case Avatar is not an anime, as it is American/Western (albeit with many references to Asian cultures).

However, some people define anime as a style of animation, in which case it could technically be made outside of Japan although it originated there. And the Avatar definitely shares similar styles with Japanese anime, so maybe it could be classed as one.

Anyway, to keep it simple I would recommend Avatar as a really show in general, especially the original series (Avatar: the Last Airbender) which had about sixty episodes. I'm not sure off the top of my head how many Legend of Korra has, but I think there are about 13 episodes a season and 4 seasons? I think they are definitely worth watching.

[Captain Cheema]

M e i

Captain Cheema

How many episode are there? And would anyone recommend this as a really good anime?

Depends on your definition of anime.

The most common definition to my knowledge is anime = Japanese animation - in which case Avatar is not an anime, as it is American/Western (albeit with many references to Asian cultures).

However, some people define anime as a style of animation, in which case it could technically be made outside of Japan although it originated there. And the Avatar definitely shares similar styles with Japanese anime, so maybe it could be classed as one.

Anyway, to keep it simple I would recommend Avatar as a really show in general, especially the original series (Avatar: the Last Airbender) which had about sixty episodes. I'm not sure off the top of my head how many Legend of Korra has, but I think there are about 13 episodes a season and 4 seasons? I think they are definitely worth watching.

Interesting point! Ive watched Avatar the Airbender but I have yet to watch the legend of korra. It seem like a show that will get me hooked so i might give it a try xd

[Arcoon Effox]

i-viet-james

Arcoon Effox

i-viet-james

Arcoon Effox

Remind myself that there were worse sequels, which shat all over their predecessors even more than Korra did to AtLA, and take comfort in that.

If you are saying that Legend of Korra is a "terrible" addition to the Avatar franchise or any sequel to any franchise, then you aren't a true fan that is loyal to his fandom.

Your No True Scotsman fallacy is both fallacious and a little strange. Frankly, I wonder if you even understand what that word even means.

"Fandom" (consisting of fan and the suffix -dom, as in kingdom) is a term used to refer to a subculture composed of fans characterized by a feeling of empathy and camaraderie with others who share a common interest - in this case, the Avatar universe. Bearing that in mind, I fail to see how not liking a sequel/spin-off which I find to be both inferior and disappointing when compared to its predecessor could be considered showing disloyalty to anybody. I owe no obligation whatsoever to such people (or the franchise itself, as it's an intangible thing), since it's not like I ever swore kind of oath to like every aspect of it. Furthermore, it's not like doing so is mandatory for being a fan of something.

For instance, I'm a huge Pokemon fan, but I don't play the TCG or any of the spin-off games, and even think that several of them are awful games. Hells, I think that the Gen3 games have an awful plot, and are generally the worst games in the core series - but harboring such sentiments doesn't somehow make me "disloyal" to anything.

i-viet-james

I know at times we think that some sequels aren't as good as the original, but it does add to the story, and we do get more of our favorite show!

Just because something is added to a story doesn't mean that the story is somehow improved by it, or that the addition was needed in the first place.

i-viet-james

...unless it literally "shats" all over what you love dearly, you should be happy for what your given.

Eureka Seven AO (the example I gave in the above link) literally shat all over the original series. It stripped the heroes of their incredibly hard-earned happy ending, and also vindicated what the show's villain was saying all along.

Korra wasn't as big a slap to the face as all of that was, but there have been plenty of moments throughout which have made me say, "How in the infernal blue ******** could anyone think that was a good idea?!"

...Oh, and the idea that I should "be happy for what I'm given" is a pretty demeaning one. I've already talked about it, and nothing more need be said, but seriously, dude, that's a rotten attitude to have about things.

i-viet-james

(For example: the Star Wars fandom)

Methinks by this you're referring to Star Wars fans who hate the Prequel Trilogy. Funny you should mention that, actually, since including Raava in the story is basically the same thing as Star Wars introducing Midi-chlorians...

I don't hate Episodes 1-3 as much as some do, but I can see where people who do are coming from. The acting is garbage, the story is weaksauce at best, the overabundance of CG sets is just painful, and seeing pre-Darth Vader mope around like an emo kid and throw hissy fits - not to mention his ultimate reason for turning to the Dark Side - kind of ruined his image in some peoples' eyes.

Does that mean that if they're "true fans" of the series that they shouldn't complain about it? Hells no it doesn't. If anything, fans of a series should complain about when events in a follow-up to a series have an impact on factors from the original - especially when the sequel comes many years after the conclusion of the original, and the story is not in the hands of those who created the series. The idea that fans of something should just automatically like anything that has to do with that thing is both ridiculous and insulting.

You do have many good points made out, and color me impressed.

Thanks. It's the result of mostly hanging out in ED, I suppose...

i-viet-james

I shouldn't have judged you on something that I haven't watched my self (Eureka-Seven)...

If you're a fan of anime, watch it. You won't be disappointed... unless you watch the sequel.

i-viet-james

...but can you explain how introducing Raava is like introducing the Midi-chlorians.

In AtLA, the lore of the Avatar was a fairly spiritual concept (similar to that of the Force in the original Star Wars trilogy); it's just something that nature came up with to keep the balance of the world in check. The Avatar is reborn as a human because he/she needs to experience the joys, frustrating and saddening parts of life, in order to develop a better connection and understanding of the world, as explained by Avatar Yangchen... yet in Book 2 of Korra, Raava is a separate and already established being that joins and aids Wan for entirely different reasons than what Yangchen suggested, and we learn that without Raava the Avatar wouldn't exist at all.

In that way, the inclusion of Raava in the lore of the Avatar is much like Episode I telling us that people couldn't use the Force without the Midi-chlorians. Basically, without some outside force which was never spoken about in the original stories, neither would work.

i-viet-james

Can you explain some moments where Legend of Korra made you say, "How in the infernal blue ******** could anyone think that was a good idea?"

First and foremost: Severing the Avatar's bond with it's predecessors. In AtLA, Roku explains that that when one enters the Avatar State, the power, ability and knowledge of the previous Avatars flows through the current one. As a result, after the end of Spirits, Korra shouldn't be getting any bonuses/buffs/etc from entering the Avatar State, but Change showed us that for some reason she's no weaker as a result. That (and the stuff Wan did before there were any previous Avatars) indicates that all of the power gained in the Avatar State actually must come from Raava... which in turn would have to mean that Roku was wrong.

Secondly: The horrendous writing involving the love triangle nonsense between Korra/Mako/Asami. 'Nuff said.

Third: Korra's attitude for throughout the first 2 seasons, and how nobody cares or punishes her for acting like an unrepentant bully.
Exhibit A

Korra does a great job of proving this guy right by acting like a total bully and threatening to kick his a** - twice. Does she receive any kind of recompense for this? Nope.

Exhibit B

Korra literally kicks an elderly man in the a** just for doing his job. Why? Because she doesn't like what he's saying.

Exhibit C

When this happened, Mako was with Asami - and Korra knows that. She also knows that Bolin (his brother and their teammate) is into to her, and doesn't give a crap.

Exhibit D

Korra's father and several people are found guilty of treason and condemned to death. Korra tells the judge "You take their lives and I'll take yours".

In his courtroom, in front of dozens of people, Korra threatens to kill a judge. And does anything happen to her for making death threats at that judge...? Nope!

Exhibit E

...and because nobody did anything when Korra threatened a judge in his own courtroom, Korra chases him down, forces him out of his car, and demands that her father be released from prison. When he didn't comply, she puts his head inside Naga's mouth and threatens to kill him again.

Exhibit F

When the Judge reveals he can't get her father out of prison, Korra goes and busts him out herself.

To reiterate: Korra assists in a prison break.

Her punishment for this? You guessed it: Nothing!

Exhibit G

Korra's mad at her BF for doing the right thing because it conflicts with what she wants to do. Solution? Smash his desk - which happens to be in the middle of a police station!

(Bonus: In one of the many out-of-character moments Lin Beifong has in Book 2, she doesn't bat an eyelash about someone wrecking her police station.)

...I think that's enough examples to demonstrate my point.

i-viet-james

(I see many holes in the first two season, but not really the last two seasons by far.)

Book 3 largely felt like an apology for those that came before it, and Korra finally became an almost likable character, but IMO the reason why it was an improvement over what came before it was because the titular character wasn't the main focus of much of it.

That said: An Avatar who is not of Earth Kingdom origins (and who no longer has a connection to their past lives) learning Metalbending with ease? I call bullshit.

i-viet-james

Thank you for back something sensible, unlike others that replied (rudely) back to me at times.

No offense, but your first post to me came off as being kind of rude and full of attitude, so if people have responded to your posts in that way, it wouldn't be too surprising. Perhaps you should consider such things when making future posts.

[Arcoon Effox]

Captain Cheema

How many episode are there?

There will be 52 in all, though we're only up to episode 46 at present.

I suggest you watch the original series before starting with Korra. It's 61 episodes long.

Captain Cheema

And would anyone recommend this as a really good anime?

No, because it's not an "anime" by conventional definitions.

The word "anime" is a Japanese loan-word that simply means "animation", but has come to mean "Japanese animation", colloquially. As such, since the show was created and produced by Americans and animated by Korean studios, it does not count as one.

That said: The series is a decent follow-up to the original series, but IMO it never reaches the level the original did. As a show, Korra stumbles through two seasons before finding its rhythm and finally getting good in the third one (with the exception of a few stand-out episodes). However, even then, many of the emotionally impactful moments of the show rely on its association with the original, whether blatantly or through homages, so seeing the original series is almost necessary to watching Korra.

On the upside, by virtue of it being animated in 16:9 and in HD, LoK looks effing gorgeous. Even though the same kind of attention to detail with the various martial arts don't seem to match the level of the original, it capitalizes on the kinds of effects and space that its format can provide in ways the original (in 4:3 SD) could not. Even at it's worst "the effects are decent."

[Captain Cheema]

Arcoon Effox

Captain Cheema

How many episode are there?

There will be 52 in all, though we're only up to episode 46 at present.

I suggest you watch the original series before starting with Korra. It's 61 episodes long.

Captain Cheema

And would anyone recommend this as a really good anime?

No, because it's not an "anime" by conventional definitions.

The word "anime" is a Japanese loan-word that simply means "animation", but has come to mean "Japanese animation", colloquially. As such, since the show was created and produced by Americans and animated by Korean studios, it does not count as one.

That said: The series is a decent follow-up to the original series, but IMO it never reaches the level the original did. As a show, Korra stumbles through two seasons before finding its rhythm and finally getting good in the third one (with the exception of a few stand-out episodes). However, even then, many of the emotionally impactful moments of the show rely on its association with the original, whether blatantly or through homages, so seeing the original series is almost necessary to watching Korra.

On the upside, by virtue of it being animated in 16:9 and in HD, LoK looks effing gorgeous. Even though the same kind of attention to detail with the various martial arts don't seem to match the level of the original, it capitalizes on the kinds of effects and space that its format can provide in ways the original (in 4:3 SD) could not. Even at it's worst "the effects are decent."

Okay thanks for the insight! I think I might wait for Attack On Titan season 2 to come out. Im looking forward to that more than anything else lol