The Cosplay Arena is a Viper Pit

[GalavantMan]

I apologize in advance for my wall of text.

For someone who has been around the arena for a considerable amount of years to see many item fads come and go, I could say the age of "fair" criticism has clearly come to pass. Though I'm not saying the cosplay arenas are completely devoid of people who can produce fair and considerate criticism despite being negative; they still aim to help improving one's project.

What I'm aiming to say however is that age came to pass once the arenas became flooded, literally over-saturated with people who're either incapable handling criticism, and are often part of private and select groups who go to great and even illegal lengths to support said entry, and those who follow to the folly of the internet by making brief and inconsiderately sarcastic remarks masked as criticism to appear clever or witty.

Though I agree this form bullying should be ignored if it's a simple trollastic remark that jabs at the cosplay without stating any glaring flaws; the crafty one's however may jab at extremely minor and minute flaws that the majority of under-experienced cosplayers may actually deduct points because of it. That being said in a competitive sense you are entitled to defend your entry by educating the voters while not feeding the troll as much as possible.

As for the "overdone" statement and "originality" of cosplays it's ultimately a mix bag of confusion that many people end up falling on personal dislike of franchises for their popularity. For someone who've entered and even placed with many cosplays from seriously "overdone" series, I've suffered enough the remarks to tell you, you shouldn't let it discourage you from entering those type cosplays in the future. Instead let it inspire you to improve over your predecessors and even become more creative with the cosplay's construct, which in the end even if it might not earn your place the circle; it will gain the respect and recognition of cosplayers who'll acknowledge your skill and it'll inspire fan favorites who'll even admire you for it.

Finally the arena circle, it's really not all that in terms of winning over your competition or being immortalized. The success itself only has value to the artist behind it, and may contribute to one's personal growth if he//she records it. Though not many people like the idea of feeling cheated of a win, the insane popularity of trope-ish avatars often reflect how diverse and sometimes perverse the opinion of the common voter is and really it shouldn't be people you aim to win over.

[Miss-dark8607]

Though you have to keep in mind there's a lot of people who really just don't care what and people are sick of the lackluster quality in the arena. People thought raising the fee would be enough but it hasn't done much to curb out the "IDGF" type entries. Then there's people like me who try to offer advice on how to improve on your cosplay entries only to either A) get attacked for it or B) Get our comments deleted. So it's a nasty two way street that cause a lot of hurt feelings all around. Really you need to keep an open mind and a tough skin if you are going to enter the arenas. You have to be willing to handle any feedback you may get and don't attack others for not liking your enter.

If you are going to do a "popular" character then try to do something different with it. Like recreate you favorite scene. Like with the ever so popular FMA characters should ED hurt after a battle, having a HBSOD, or something like that. If you are doing a slice of life type of character like Nana or any of the classroom type ones; add some props and a background. Seriously, the fee is 10K and the prizes are higher too so nowadays you have to put some more thought into it.

[garbage ghoul]

Birdy Penchant

I have seen enough. It used to be a friendly place.
I understand if someone submits something in the wrong arena, or it's terribly overdone, or it's really off, that people are going to leave comments like "try again." "wrong arena" etc - now people don't need to be so rude or SRS about it, of course.
but on entries where the person really tried hard, and did a really pretty good and decent job, I see the same nasty comments.
Constructive criticism is good, suggesting what the person should do better, that kind of thing is good.
But saying "Get out." "You suck" "This is making my eyes bleed." and other things like that, and yelling in caps, like a bunch of drill sargeants, and just generally being an a*****e, how is that going to be constructive?

Why can't those of you who seem to enjoy leaving nasty comments, learn how to leave a truly constructive one?
Has it always been this way or I just didn't notice?

TLDR: I am seeing way too many nasty non-constructive criticism remarks (pages and pages of them per entry! good entries, so so entries, and bad entries all!) and very little polite constructive criticism, and even less praise. If the entry sucks you don't have to be a jerk about it.

Discuss. I gtg so I might not be able to get back to you for a while but but.. DISCUSS!!

I understand entirely. A lot of people are over critical assholes in the arenas. There's no excuse for being a d**k, even if you are "tired of this particular theme" or "something is so overrated."

[frozen_water]

Arkadiusz Caelum

But what I don't get is when people downvote something that's accurate but 'too simple' neutral

I can explain this for you I think, personally I rate based on two things, accuracy and skill. It's a contest, the point of it is to demonstrate that you deserve to win, and if you're avatar is only made up of a T-Shirt, shorts, some shoes, and whaterever face you put on it there isn't much skill involved, especially not compared to the person who has layers upon layers just to create the perfect look for their character.

If you're avatar is really simple then you should add something to it that demonstrates your skill, such as capturing a scene or an emotion linked with that character.

[Arkadiusz Caelum]

frozen_water

Arkadiusz Caelum

But what I don't get is when people downvote something that's accurate but 'too simple' neutral

I can explain this for you I think, personally I rate based on two things, accuracy and skill. It's a contest, the point of it is to demonstrate that you deserve to win, and if you're avatar is only made up of a T-Shirt, shorts, some shoes, and whaterever face you put on it there isn't much skill involved, especially not compared to the person who has layers upon layers just to create the perfect look for their character.

If you're avatar is really simple then you should add something to it that demonstrates your skill, such as capturing a scene or an emotion linked with that character.

Well yeah, I can understand a cosplay with very few items getting a lower score, but sometimes it's difficult to find just the right background. I mean if you threw on the cheapest semi-accurate clothes, then I'd give a lower score, but if I see you took the time to recreate an outfit even if it comes out looking simple, then I'd rate better... I guess...I'm not sure I'm making much sense sweatdrop

[frozen_water]

Arkadiusz Caelum

frozen_water

Arkadiusz Caelum

But what I don't get is when people downvote something that's accurate but 'too simple' neutral

I can explain this for you I think, personally I rate based on two things, accuracy and skill. It's a contest, the point of it is to demonstrate that you deserve to win, and if you're avatar is only made up of a T-Shirt, shorts, some shoes, and whaterever face you put on it there isn't much skill involved, especially not compared to the person who has layers upon layers just to create the perfect look for their character.

If you're avatar is really simple then you should add something to it that demonstrates your skill, such as capturing a scene or an emotion linked with that character.

Well yeah, I can understand a cosplay with very few items getting a lower score, but sometimes it's difficult to find just the right background. I mean if you threw on the cheapest semi-accurate clothes, then I'd give a lower score, but if I see you took the time to recreate an outfit even if it comes out looking simple, then I'd rate better... I guess...I'm not sure I'm making much sense sweatdrop

I get what you're saying, but that's why I grade based on more than just accuracy. If the character I choose to cosplay just wears a yellow dress and that's it, even if I recreate that perfectly by just equipping a matching yellow dress do I really deserve the same score as someone who did an accurate reproduction of a complex character? You run into a similar issue with the use of sets, they recreate the characters very accurately but require no skill and should receive a lower score accordingly. (IMO)

[Arkadiusz Caelum]

frozen_water

Arkadiusz Caelum

frozen_water

Arkadiusz Caelum

But what I don't get is when people downvote something that's accurate but 'too simple' neutral

I can explain this for you I think, personally I rate based on two things, accuracy and skill. It's a contest, the point of it is to demonstrate that you deserve to win, and if you're avatar is only made up of a T-Shirt, shorts, some shoes, and whaterever face you put on it there isn't much skill involved, especially not compared to the person who has layers upon layers just to create the perfect look for their character.

If you're avatar is really simple then you should add something to it that demonstrates your skill, such as capturing a scene or an emotion linked with that character.

Well yeah, I can understand a cosplay with very few items getting a lower score, but sometimes it's difficult to find just the right background. I mean if you threw on the cheapest semi-accurate clothes, then I'd give a lower score, but if I see you took the time to recreate an outfit even if it comes out looking simple, then I'd rate better... I guess...I'm not sure I'm making much sense sweatdrop

I get what you're saying, but that's why I grade based on more than just accuracy. If the character I choose to cosplay just wears a yellow dress and that's it, even if I recreate that perfectly by just equipping a matching yellow dress do I really deserve the same score as someone who did an accurate reproduction of a complex character? You run into a similar issue with the use of sets, they recreate the characters very accurately but require no skill and should receive a lower score accordingly. (IMO)

Well a simple yellow dress is something I'd rate down (like Namine, they all look the same and there's no variety...it's a very simple cosplay, but yeah..) ...and I absolutely hate sets, I always give those 1's. I like cosplays that are complex and have lots of layers moreso than a character with a dress and a pair of shoes. Simple cosplays that I like are ones where they use a little bit of layering on a simple character to get the colours and designs of the outfit, but it's still simple, yet accurate.

[frozen_water]

Arkadiusz Caelum

frozen_water

Arkadiusz Caelum

frozen_water

Arkadiusz Caelum

But what I don't get is when people downvote something that's accurate but 'too simple' neutral

I can explain this for you I think, personally I rate based on two things, accuracy and skill. It's a contest, the point of it is to demonstrate that you deserve to win, and if you're avatar is only made up of a T-Shirt, shorts, some shoes, and whaterever face you put on it there isn't much skill involved, especially not compared to the person who has layers upon layers just to create the perfect look for their character.

If you're avatar is really simple then you should add something to it that demonstrates your skill, such as capturing a scene or an emotion linked with that character.

Well yeah, I can understand a cosplay with very few items getting a lower score, but sometimes it's difficult to find just the right background. I mean if you threw on the cheapest semi-accurate clothes, then I'd give a lower score, but if I see you took the time to recreate an outfit even if it comes out looking simple, then I'd rate better... I guess...I'm not sure I'm making much sense sweatdrop

I get what you're saying, but that's why I grade based on more than just accuracy. If the character I choose to cosplay just wears a yellow dress and that's it, even if I recreate that perfectly by just equipping a matching yellow dress do I really deserve the same score as someone who did an accurate reproduction of a complex character? You run into a similar issue with the use of sets, they recreate the characters very accurately but require no skill and should receive a lower score accordingly. (IMO)

Well a simple yellow dress is something I'd rate down (like Namine, they all look the same and there's no variety...it's a very simple cosplay, but yeah..) ...and I absolutely hate sets, I always give those 1's. I like cosplays that are complex and have lots of layers moreso than a character with a dress and a pair of shoes. Simple cosplays that I like are ones where they use a little bit of layering on a simple character to get the colours and designs of the outfit, but it's still simple, yet accurate.

Clever layering involves skill, and thus would receive a higher rating from me accordingly.

[Ryuza]

I was just talking about this with someone today! I've been here since this site started, and dabbled in the avatar arena in like 2005 or 2006-ish, then didn't go back to it fully until last year. I think it HAS gotten more cutthroat, but as someone said it's probably because there didn't used to be thousands of items to choose from, especially ones that are VERY similar to each other. So to some extent, people can be a little nitpicky, but there is NO excuse for being a jerk about it -_- and no excuse for bullying, trolling or general a-holeness.

Some people don't understand that Gaia cosplay is, in most cases, an interpretation; not everyone is going to have the same interpretation as everyone else. Sometimes it just comes down to personal preference in terms of items being used, and a lot of times people can be really critical about things that have NO right answer. Instead of looking at the creativity this person might have had, they look at it as "Oh, I wouldn't have gone with that" and apparently that translates to "that's wrong, and I have to tell them it's wrong because I wouldn't have done it that way."


and yeah, sorry for the rant XD but I wholeheartedly agree with you that the arena used to be a nicer place ;_; I've always done it just to have fun, and because I love the characters I cosplay XD

[Makoto_Gin]

I'm not the keenness on avatar cosplays considering that you're working from an existing character creation instead of coming up with your own outfit, but accuracy and interpretation do play key roles, and over the past 4 years especially with the arena being split in two and getting new items once a week now there are massive amounts of salt and venom getting tossed around in them nowadays. When I was still running an avatar guild one of the main things that I stressed to the members was be fair and don't cause problems for other entrants because it not only reflected badly on the guild as a whole but also made you come off as a self involved jerk. Also best believe if I or any of the other mods caught wind of any wrongdoing it got dealt with swiftly.

Back when I did my first couple of cosplays back in 2007 it took a massive amount of effort to pull off some accuracy with it, but it got the job done for the time being (It was the first Yuffie cosplay to place in the arena). Because of it not being seen before or that well, it did decently even with some of the less than savory comments I would get, but it was few and far between and I either ignored it or I used it to motivate me to improve. Everything I and others have mentioned are truths that have become apparent or more apparent over time, and it's something that's going to have to change at some point. It creates an unnecessary hostile environment and turns people off from participating in something that is suppose to be for fun.

[Birdy Penchant]

Ryuza

I was just talking about this with someone today! I've been here since this site started, and dabbled in the avatar arena in like 2005 or 2006-ish, then didn't go back to it fully until last year. I think it HAS gotten more cutthroat, but as someone said it's probably because there didn't used to be thousands of items to choose from, especially ones that are VERY similar to each other. So to some extent, people can be a little nitpicky, but there is NO excuse for being a jerk about it -_- and no excuse for bullying, trolling or general a-holeness.

Some people don't understand that Gaia cosplay is, in most cases, an interpretation; not everyone is going to have the same interpretation as everyone else. Sometimes it just comes down to personal preference in terms of items being used, and a lot of times people can be really critical about things that have NO right answer. Instead of looking at the creativity this person might have had, they look at it as "Oh, I wouldn't have gone with that" and apparently that translates to "that's wrong, and I have to tell them it's wrong because I wouldn't have done it that way."


and yeah, sorry for the rant XD but I wholeheartedly agree with you that the arena used to be a nicer place ;_; I've always done it just to have fun, and because I love the characters I cosplay XD

Your avi is amazing!!!! wow!!! You should enter it smile
I agree about that theres no excuse for people being a jerk about things too. They need to learn what constructive criticism is! And yeah, some people do think that their way is the only right way x) Anyway I'm glad this thread is getting so much discussion. It makes me glad!

[Accalia Darkstorm]

this is why i go around and try to give nice critisim. some of the arena eliets dont exactly apprieciate it and call it white knighting. all im really trying to do is find the cosplays that are getting the worst comments and just say somthing nice about it. i want to encourage them to try again. not just give up because people are jerks.
its not just about having thick skin, its about treating others with respect. treat others how you want to be treated. why should it be ignored, that doesnt make it go away it never does.
so yes, i started a guild, called White Knights for Gaians. and im damn proud of it. its filled with good hearted people, who want to try and make gaia a more friendly place. its not like we go through the arenas and give everyone 5/5's and say "omg its the bestest!" we give our honest opinions and suggestions of what they can do better. and if that means making some of the regular cosplayers dislike me, then so be it.
if any of you want to check out my guild there is a link in my signature. i thank you all for takeing the time to read my rant.

[Utopia]

Accalia the white knight

I'm a bit ambivalent about that guild of yours. It is a nice idea. On the other hand, it reeks of hypocrisy if your own members come over as sort of rude and unreasonable...
I'm referring to the girl who came into this forum at the beginning of the week and started a thread to ask for votes for her entry. This is against this forum's rules. She was asked nicely to remove the link, someone went to the trouble to copy and paste the rules her thread breached. She then became increasingly rude, up to name-calling ("b***h" and "********" were the terms, I think).
Maybe you should think about a code of behaviour for your white knights? So single members don't shed a bad light on the rest of you? Mind, I didn't know she was a member until I looked at your guild, but still - just saying "we're the good guys" if you don't behave like it isn't worth much.
Again - that was another member, not you personally.



To not make this completely ot - I think the other side of the coin is the name-calling and being rude by those who enter the Arena. I don't know how often I've seen that people enter an avatar, get a constructive critic, and become all rude and defensive about it.
Has that always been so bad, or is it another sign of the Arena becoming "rougher"?

[Accalia Darkstorm]

Utopia

Accalia the white knight

I'm a bit ambivalent about that guild of yours. It is a nice idea. On the other hand, it reeks of hypocrisy if your own members come over as sort of rude and unreasonable...
I'm referring to the girl who came into this forum at the beginning of the week and started a thread to ask for votes for her entry. This is against this forum's rules. She was asked nicely to remove the link, someone went to the trouble to copy and paste the rules her thread breached. She then became increasingly rude, up to name-calling ("b***h" and "********" were the terms, I think).
Maybe you should think about a code of behaviour for your white knights? So single members don't shed a bad light on the rest of you? Mind, I didn't know she was a member until I looked at your guild, but still - just saying "we're the good guys" if you don't behave like it isn't worth much.
Again - that was another member, not you personally.



To not make this completely ot - I think the other side of the coin is the name-calling and being rude by those who enter the Arena. I don't know how often I've seen that people enter an avatar, get a constructive critic, and become all rude and defensive about it.
Has that always been so bad, or is it another sign of the Arena becoming "rougher"?

i will properly deal with the situation. i voted for her avi, so i didnt visit her thread.
Thank you for informing me.
Other than this one member, I haven't seen any others act rudely.
and as for the other side of the coin, its true people who enter do get rude, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. for the ones with out good reason, i usually tell them the same thing i tell a rude commenter. i don't just focus on the voters, like you seem to believe.

[Utopia]

Accalia the white knight

i will properly deal with the situation. i voted for her avi, so i didnt visit her thread.
Thank you for informing me.
Other than this one member, I haven't seen any others act rudely.
and as for the other side of the coin, its true people who enter do get rude, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. for the ones with out good reason, i usually tell them the same thing i tell a rude commenter. i don't just focus on the voters, like you seem to believe.

I believe no such thing. I don't know you or your guild's members, I just 'witnessed' this one incident, and didn't like that girl's behaviour, and that's it ^^.