Traditional Artists < CG Artists [Language warning]

[Djzozain]

Braindead Kappa

[DISCLAIMER: I am not here to put down any CG artists or anything, I am voicing my opinion and whoever agrees or disagrees may do so.]

Okay. I NEED to rant this, because I'm seeing WAY too much of this s**t.

First of all, I am an artist to who roams the R & C (recently changed) and Art Freebies. I am a traditional artist, because those are the materials I have, and I make good use of what I have.

What's my problem, you ask?

Well. I am ******** tired of all the craptastic CG artists in the Requests & Commissions, who sell their art. You know who. They have tablets, they have photoshop, they have all the high tech, super special awesome CG materials... BUT THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY DRAW WORTH A FLYING s**t! Seriously! I've seen people attempting to purchase art from these kinds of artists. Here's basically it.

Artist: LOLOLOL 30k for a fully CG'd [half assed] chibi.
Consumer: WOW UR SOOOOOO GOOD!!

=___= This makes me intensely angry. Not only do these artists use CGing materials to draw crap, they can't do anything with traditional media, they don't know the meaning of ANATOMY, and they charge ridiculous prices for half a**, apparently "HIGH QUALITY" artwork.

This puts a serious dent in traditional artist's, like myself, selling strategies.

C'MON PEOPLE! Don't be stupid! Traditional art IS just as good as CG'd art, if not better. It takes MORE skill to properly use ******** pencil crayons than use a tablet which, with just a click of an "undo" button, you can start over. D< You CAN'T do that with paints, pastels, pencil crayons, crayons...etc. YOU JUST HAVE TO IMPROVISE AND FIND A SOLUTION ON YOUR OWN, OR START FROM SCRATCH. It takes much more effort to be able to colour effectively with traditional means, rather than computer colouring.

Learn to use traditional media, and when you do, YOU WILL BE MUCH BETTER AT COMPUTER COLOURING. GUARANTEED.

DON'T THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY CG's MEANS THAT IT IS HIGHER QUALITY ARTWORK THAN TRADITIONAL MEDIA.

I don't think it's fair that we, the traditional artists, have less sales, and less people like our style of art, just because we colour with something that takes more skill, but doesn't look fake. =__=

And, as always, THERE ARE crappy traditional artists too.

KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. Know the skill level used in artwork, know what's high quality and low quality, know the amount of effort the artists puts in for you, and I guaruntee, that you'll be happier with your purchases.

THANK YOU.

Oh... ooh. Did you see that? Right there, on my face?
That was the worlds tiniest tear, for the world's saddest moment.

I'm sorry that you're too poor to afford a Wacom, and that you can't draw that well to begin with, but seriously. Grow up. CG looks better. I don't care if it's harder and takes more skill to do equal work in pencil crayons or pastels or whatever. Have you ever noticed the trend of humanity--the trend of evolution? Why spend twice the time for half the job? Because it's "harder"? Because it takes more "skill"? Because it's "traditional"? Go back to 0th century Japan, dude. If traditional artists are sooooo good, why don't they grab a Wacom and whip out masterpieces? Well, because they can't.

To use less energy to get a better result. That's the trend of evolution.

Don't like it? Go die in a tar pit.

tl;dr - Cry more, grow up.

[Uronoro]

Djzozain

Braindead Kappa

[DISCLAIMER: I am not here to put down any CG artists or anything, I am voicing my opinion and whoever agrees or disagrees may do so.]

Okay. I NEED to rant this, because I'm seeing WAY too much of this s**t.

First of all, I am an artist to who roams the R & C (recently changed) and Art Freebies. I am a traditional artist, because those are the materials I have, and I make good use of what I have.

What's my problem, you ask?

Well. I am ******** tired of all the craptastic CG artists in the Requests & Commissions, who sell their art. You know who. They have tablets, they have photoshop, they have all the high tech, super special awesome CG materials... BUT THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY DRAW WORTH A FLYING s**t! Seriously! I've seen people attempting to purchase art from these kinds of artists. Here's basically it.

Artist: LOLOLOL 30k for a fully CG'd [half assed] chibi.
Consumer: WOW UR SOOOOOO GOOD!!

=___= This makes me intensely angry. Not only do these artists use CGing materials to draw crap, they can't do anything with traditional media, they don't know the meaning of ANATOMY, and they charge ridiculous prices for half a**, apparently "HIGH QUALITY" artwork.

This puts a serious dent in traditional artist's, like myself, selling strategies.

C'MON PEOPLE! Don't be stupid! Traditional art IS just as good as CG'd art, if not better. It takes MORE skill to properly use ******** pencil crayons than use a tablet which, with just a click of an "undo" button, you can start over. D< You CAN'T do that with paints, pastels, pencil crayons, crayons...etc. YOU JUST HAVE TO IMPROVISE AND FIND A SOLUTION ON YOUR OWN, OR START FROM SCRATCH. It takes much more effort to be able to colour effectively with traditional means, rather than computer colouring.

Learn to use traditional media, and when you do, YOU WILL BE MUCH BETTER AT COMPUTER COLOURING. GUARANTEED.

DON'T THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY CG's MEANS THAT IT IS HIGHER QUALITY ARTWORK THAN TRADITIONAL MEDIA.

I don't think it's fair that we, the traditional artists, have less sales, and less people like our style of art, just because we colour with something that takes more skill, but doesn't look fake. =__=

And, as always, THERE ARE crappy traditional artists too.

KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. Know the skill level used in artwork, know what's high quality and low quality, know the amount of effort the artists puts in for you, and I guaruntee, that you'll be happier with your purchases.

THANK YOU.

Oh... ooh. Did you see that? Right there, on my face?
That was the worlds tiniest tear, for the world's saddest moment.

I'm sorry that you're too poor to afford a Wacom, and that you can't draw that well to begin with, but seriously. Grow up. CG looks better. I don't care if it's harder and takes more skill to do equal work in pencil crayons or pastels or whatever. Have you ever noticed the trend of humanity--the trend of evolution? Why spend twice the time for half the job? Because it's "harder"? Because it takes more "skill"? Because it's "traditional"? Go back to 0th century Japan, dude. If traditional artists are sooooo good, why don't they grab a Wacom and whip out masterpieces? Well, because they can't.

To use less energy to get a better result. That's the trend of evolution.

Don't like it? Go die in a tar pit.

tl;dr - Cry more, grow up.

Bitter much? I'm a CG artist, and I prefer using CG, but I think the OP's frustration is justified. Maybe a tad mislead since Gaia isn't the real world, and traditional art is at times favored more highly when you're not looking at a screen all the time. But good lord, stop treating her like a child. She had a legitimate rant that spurred a legitimate discussion.

And that's what this place is, the Art Discussion, not the "Let Come in and Bash Everyone that has an Issue". Lighten up and used that evolved brain of yours confused . If you haven't noticed, natural selection in humans has dwindled to a minimal since society thinks that even those with extreme medical ailments deserve a chance at life. And if we apply that train of thought to art, traditional artists should be allowed to continue to make art in the manner they see fit, regardless to it's popularity or successfulness. This isn't the stone age anymore.

Welcome to the human world. wink

[Djzozain]

Uronoro

Djzozain

Braindead Kappa

[DISCLAIMER: I am not here to put down any CG artists or anything, I am voicing my opinion and whoever agrees or disagrees may do so.]

Okay. I NEED to rant this, because I'm seeing WAY too much of this s**t.

First of all, I am an artist to who roams the R & C (recently changed) and Art Freebies. I am a traditional artist, because those are the materials I have, and I make good use of what I have.

What's my problem, you ask?

Well. I am ******** tired of all the craptastic CG artists in the Requests & Commissions, who sell their art. You know who. They have tablets, they have photoshop, they have all the high tech, super special awesome CG materials... BUT THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY DRAW WORTH A FLYING s**t! Seriously! I've seen people attempting to purchase art from these kinds of artists. Here's basically it.

Artist: LOLOLOL 30k for a fully CG'd [half assed] chibi.
Consumer: WOW UR SOOOOOO GOOD!!

=___= This makes me intensely angry. Not only do these artists use CGing materials to draw crap, they can't do anything with traditional media, they don't know the meaning of ANATOMY, and they charge ridiculous prices for half a**, apparently "HIGH QUALITY" artwork.

This puts a serious dent in traditional artist's, like myself, selling strategies.

C'MON PEOPLE! Don't be stupid! Traditional art IS just as good as CG'd art, if not better. It takes MORE skill to properly use ******** pencil crayons than use a tablet which, with just a click of an "undo" button, you can start over. D< You CAN'T do that with paints, pastels, pencil crayons, crayons...etc. YOU JUST HAVE TO IMPROVISE AND FIND A SOLUTION ON YOUR OWN, OR START FROM SCRATCH. It takes much more effort to be able to colour effectively with traditional means, rather than computer colouring.

Learn to use traditional media, and when you do, YOU WILL BE MUCH BETTER AT COMPUTER COLOURING. GUARANTEED.

DON'T THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY CG's MEANS THAT IT IS HIGHER QUALITY ARTWORK THAN TRADITIONAL MEDIA.

I don't think it's fair that we, the traditional artists, have less sales, and less people like our style of art, just because we colour with something that takes more skill, but doesn't look fake. =__=

And, as always, THERE ARE crappy traditional artists too.

KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. Know the skill level used in artwork, know what's high quality and low quality, know the amount of effort the artists puts in for you, and I guaruntee, that you'll be happier with your purchases.

THANK YOU.

Oh... ooh. Did you see that? Right there, on my face?
That was the worlds tiniest tear, for the world's saddest moment.

I'm sorry that you're too poor to afford a Wacom, and that you can't draw that well to begin with, but seriously. Grow up. CG looks better. I don't care if it's harder and takes more skill to do equal work in pencil crayons or pastels or whatever. Have you ever noticed the trend of humanity--the trend of evolution? Why spend twice the time for half the job? Because it's "harder"? Because it takes more "skill"? Because it's "traditional"? Go back to 0th century Japan, dude. If traditional artists are sooooo good, why don't they grab a Wacom and whip out masterpieces? Well, because they can't.

To use less energy to get a better result. That's the trend of evolution.

Don't like it? Go die in a tar pit.

tl;dr - Cry more, grow up.

Bitter much? I'm a CG artist, and I prefer using CG, but I think the OP's frustration is justified. Maybe a tad mislead since Gaia isn't the real world, and traditional art is at times favored more highly when you're not looking at a screen all the time. But good lord, stop treating her like a child. She had a legitimate rant that spurred a legitimate discussion.

And that's what this place is, the Art Discussion, not the "Let Come in and Bash Everyone that has an Issue". Lighten up and used that evolved brain of yours confused . If you haven't notice, natural selection in humans has dwindled to a minimal since society thinks that even those with extreme medical ailments deserve a chance at life. And if we apply that train of thought to art, traditional artists should be allowed to continue to make art in the manner they see fit. This isn't the stone age anymore.

Welcome to the human world. wink

You do point something out that I like. This isn't the real world. In the real world, real art is worth more.

As for my brain, it's running on auto-pilot. Arguing on the internet is easier than not arguing on the internet => FLAME FLAME FLAME.

[Uronoro]

Djzozain

You do point something out that I like. This isn't the real world. In the real world, real art is worth more.

As for my brain, it's running on auto-pilot. Arguing on the internet is easier than not arguing on the internet => FLAME FLAME FLAME.

rolleyes Oh, boy. Just careful with that fire, flaming another user is considered reportable under the ToS if the person you are flaming feels provoked enough to report. Sure, users flame all the time, but you need to know the limit.

[lavonia]

The trend of the evolution of art history involves the stable establishment of a variety of art media over time. Charcoal-like materials (or comparable materials) that were used on cave wall drawings thousands of years ago are still used today. Digital is here to stay, and its only one part of the evolution of art. The other media will continued to be used as well.
___

"It's not fair" statements. The truth is life isn't fair. As an artist, you put your heart on your canvas; you are going to take a beating for doing that. Chances are most of us are also looking around saying, "Yeah, we know life isn't fair. Get up and go on." Over time, you really do just learn to deal with those facts and work independent of them or you conform to what's popular to sell more. I'm not telling that you shouldn't be upset when an unfair hand is dealt, but I am saying as an artist you are likely to deal with it alot and you probably will find little sympathy.
___

"Traditional is better. Digital is better." These are ignorant statements. There is no better. There are often better applications for one medium or the other, but even that breaks the mold from time to time. We all have our preferences of media and style, and preferences are fine. Badmouthing others because they like something different just shows evidence of having a small mind.

[TheWhiteAce]

Coming from being both a traditional and digital artist, I feel both mediums are equally hard to master. While CG does look more appealing in digital like everyone mentioned, when it comes down to it, if the anatomy is bad, it's pretty obvious if the person is an experience artist. However, for communities such as Gaia, everyone isn't going to fully understand or acknowledge the skill put in a piece because majority of the time they are either inexperienced or aren't artists.

As much as love I CG, I understand where you're coming from. A lot of times, traditional pieces that I've created that are have better composition and anatomy are often overshadowed by my other pieces just because they just happen to be CGed. What I've also learned from Gaia, and the internet for that matter, is that people love shiny pieces of art even if the artist tries to hide flaws in the overall composition. And frankly, it is pathetic how traditional isn't as appreciated, because I've seen excellent pieces of art that could rival that of CGed work. But even then you have to consider what's mainstream as well. I just hope you don't take that impression and that assume all CGed is overrated.

[Bottled Poe]

Quote:

Oh... ooh. Did you see that? Right there, on my face?
That was the worlds tiniest tear, for the world's saddest moment.

I'm sorry that you're too poor to afford a Wacom, and that you can't draw that well to begin with, but seriously. Grow up. CG looks better. I don't care if it's harder and takes more skill to do equal work in pencil crayons or pastels or whatever. Have you ever noticed the trend of humanity--the trend of evolution? Why spend twice the time for half the job? Because it's "harder"? Because it takes more "skill"? Because it's "traditional"? Go back to 0th century Japan, dude. If traditional artists are sooooo good, why don't they grab a Wacom and whip out masterpieces? Well, because they can't.

To use less energy to get a better result. That's the trend of evolution.

Don't like it? Go die in a tar pit.

tl;dr - Cry more, grow up.

Well now. I expect having people post useless things that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You're merely flaming, and not actually posting any useful information.

As aforementioned, this is the Art DISCUSSION, not random crap and put downs, that belongs in the Chatterbox. I'm merely posting MY opinions on the subject. No need to be disrespectful. And also mentioned, I CAN report you under flaming, but because I'm not bitter and it's really not such a big deal, I won't. Grow up, thanks.

Just please don't post things as a direct attack on other people.

Quote:

Badmouthing others because they like something different just shows evidence of having a small mind.

Everyone take note of this also. No badmouthing here, it makes you sound very ignorant, and we value everyone's opinions.

Quote:

I just hope you don't take that impression and that assume all CGed is overrated.

Of course I don't think that all CG is overrated. Some, can be. I do see excellent quality art from CG artists much of the time. smile I am just expressing frustration for people who can't draw to begin with, and they are using shiny CG to cover it up.

Quote:

But her point is that traditional art is rejected in favour of CG, in which case it is right.

Yes, this is my point, sorry for confusing anyone.

[keiiii]

CG does sell better than traditional on Gaia, especially when it comes to intermediate level art. It's not as bad when we get to really awesome super high quality art, though. If it's insanely awesome, then people will want it whether it's traditional or digital.

I agree with others, though, that traditional does not take any more skill than CG. Case in point: here's a conversation I had recently with an artist friend of mine: link to thread She's really good with traditional media, but she was having trouble achieving the same quality with CG. Yes, she has a tablet. Yes, she practiced.

YES, it's easy to whip up garish, poor quality CGs. But try to paint masterpieces like this or this. It's not gonna be easy, and it's not gonna be quick.

[Master Resonance]

lol, love the whole rant except the fact that you are separating artists into the 'CG artists' and the 'Traditonal Artist' making it sound like they are two totally different things

I agree with you on the mostly 'craptastic' sellers, and their shops filled with buyers because of gaia fame or what not.

CG art gets more exposure than traditional art ..duh..
so people who see famous/decent CG arts will be like- 'oh everyone can do it so I can to'
since thats all they see (internet) ...but this is only my theory, although its probably near the truth.

Traditional is worth less than CG art in a lot of the areas because
-gaia is on the internet
-CG takes almost no resources
-Traditional art takes longer in general

I do both traditional and CG, but mostly CG now due to the lack of time.
and to people who are judging,

NO CG does not magically make you better, it requires similar skills as traditional mediums
and I think I have the answer to your question of why CG crap sells better than a good traditional piece

Gradient .. people who has no idea how to draw gradient, one of the most basic thing to drawing, can now, magically, click two points and WALA! gradient.

I've seen wayyyyy too much gradient fail-use ..putting gradient randomly, not even considering light source (or should say, not even caring) ..those ppl should just, uninstall photoshop

I am sure everyone can agree how much harder it is to make a decent gradient on traditional canvas than giving your mouse a couple clicks.

and Yes, buyers, open your eyes please...and I can assure you that you can tell between a 15 min gradient abuse and a 15 hr piece...

fuel the ego of those who are working hard.. not to those who think theres a shortcut to drawing, or those who just have infinite gaia fame to back them up.
It will just create more of __________
ps. every artist should go take anatomy if not learn it on their own.

[Bottled Poe]

Quote:

traditional does not take any more skill than CG.

Okay... I admit, honestly, I was a little pissed off when I wrote the first post. I am wrong in saying that CG takes less skill to use. The two take different kinds of skill, but the same amount generally.

Again, just pissed off about the people who draw terribly to begin with, and then cover it up with CG.

Quote:

..those ppl should just, uninstall photoshop

I am sure everyone can agree how much harder it is to make a decent gradient on traditional canvas than giving your mouse a couple clicks.

and Yes, buyers, open your eyes please...and I can assure you that you can tell between a 15 min gradient abuse and a 15 hr piece...

Mm, yes. I do agree with the poorly done gradient use. It's just maybe I'm a bit miffed about technology allowing us to do things easier by just clicking a few spots, without taking the time and effort to do it right. (Again, referring to the people who draw crap, and then try and cover it up with CG)

[keiiii]

Master Resonance

Gradient .. people who has no idea how to draw gradient, one of the most basic thing to drawing, can now, magically, click two points and WALA! gradient. . . . I am sure everyone can agree how much harder it is to make a decent gradient on traditional canvas than giving your mouse a couple clicks.

And this is pretty much irrelevant because...

Master Resonance

I've seen wayyyyy too much gradient fail-use ..putting gradient randomly, not even considering light source (or should say, not even caring)

...exactly. We're not selling gradients, we're selling pictures of fully rendered characters. Having a gradient tool means nothing to novices who don't know how to use it to do a proper rendering/ coloring/ shading job. It doesn't really matter to experts, either, because they can just paint digitally the same way they do on a physical canvas without using any gradient tools, filters, etc.

Bottom line is, if you don't know what you're doing, it's going to look bad no matter which medium you use. The problem lies not in artists, but in buyers who can't tell the difference.


Another issue is marketing skills. The ability to make your products more popular, more desired. A decent artist with great marketing skills will probably sell better than a great artist with no marketing skills.

[Master Resonance]

keiiii

Master Resonance

Gradient .. people who has no idea how to draw gradient, one of the most basic thing to drawing, can now, magically, click two points and WALA! gradient. . . . I am sure everyone can agree how much harder it is to make a decent gradient on traditional canvas than giving your mouse a couple clicks.

And this is pretty much irrelevant because...

Master Resonance

I've seen wayyyyy too much gradient fail-use ..putting gradient randomly, not even considering light source (or should say, not even caring)

...exactly. We're not selling gradients, we're selling pictures of fully rendered characters. Having a gradient tool means nothing to novices who don't know how to use it to do a proper rendering/ coloring/ shading job. It doesn't really matter to experts, either, because they can just paint digitally the same way they do on a physical canvas without using any gradient tools, filters, etc.

Bottom line is, if you don't know what you're doing, it's going to look bad no matter which medium you use. The problem lies not in artists, but in buyers who can't tell the difference.


Another issue is marketing skills. The ability to make your products more popular, more desired. A decent artist with great marketing skills will probably sell better than a great artist with no marketing skills.

erm nice stuff haha ..i shall be keeping an eye on ur dA :3

[Master Resonance]

Braindead Kappa

Quote:

traditional does not take any more skill than CG.

Okay... I admit, honestly, I was a little pissed off when I wrote the first post. I am wrong in saying that CG takes less skill to use. The two take different kinds of skill, but the same amount generally.

Again, just pissed off about the people who draw terribly to begin with, and then cover it up with CG.

Quote:

..those ppl should just, uninstall photoshop

I am sure everyone can agree how much harder it is to make a decent gradient on traditional canvas than giving your mouse a couple clicks.

and Yes, buyers, open your eyes please...and I can assure you that you can tell between a 15 min gradient abuse and a 15 hr piece...

Mm, yes. I do agree with the poorly done gradient use. It's just maybe I'm a bit miffed about technology allowing us to do things easier by just clicking a few spots, without taking the time and effort to do it right. (Again, referring to the people who draw crap, and then try and cover it up with CG)

yes it is easier to make gradients , but that also open new possibility, what can you do with those extra, unused effort when you are doing CG.. for me it would be ..work on pose/anatomy. Technology takes away the hard stuff, the stuff you need to have skill to do on trad. so use it on some thing else, you should try developing new skill in CG, you might find it useful in traditionals biggrin

[Lekoza]

Someday, i'll be good as you guys...maybe better...

then maybe we can all become friends...