Traditional Artists < CG Artists [Language warning]

[redcommet]

cg art is just like any other tool. How do you think the traditional painters of the mid 20th century felt when the airbrush came out. Same thing a few hundred years ago when Impressionist painting first came out into play. People who never drew or painted started buying paint in these crazy new containers you could buy in stores and would just try to make shapes with colors. They didn't understand croma, value, or hue. History repeats itself, in a few decades there will be some new tool to create art that any one can pick up. The thing to remember is once a market(cg illustration) becomes over flooded with a product people will get pickier, competition will get fiercer and the weak will be weeded out. I am a traditional illustrator like you, but I also use the comp to digitally paint. There are methods to digital painting that really emulate traditional painting. The difference there is you can make more money by selling the original art(painting)

[God-the-almighty]

wickeddelight

I'd like to point out that art bought on Gaia is for a totally different purpose than art bought in real life (with the exception of vanity art like caricatures, which are basically the same purpose as avi art.)
Art in real life is bought so you can take it home with you, put it in your house, and look at it whenever you want. With digital art, unless people watermark their stuff, any piece of art you like you can just save to your computer and look at it whenever you want, no payment necessary. Actually buying it is only necessary if you want to 1. Display it as a status or vanity item 2. Get a custom-made piece or someone to custom-color your own drawing, in which case you are mainly paying for the service, or 3. Get a B/C or RP pet, in which case you are paying partly for service and partly for membership in a community.

So yeah, I sell CG art, and it's not that high quality, but then I sell mine pretty cheap. It actually takes long to color than if I were using markers and pens, about the same time as if I was doing watercolor, but the result is shinier than either. In trying out to be a colorist for various shops I've found that there's prejudice within the realm of CG art too - I do texture-based art and a lot of shop owners seem to only be interested in solid colors with soft shading. They are welcome to have their preference, it doesn't bug me except I wish they would say so at the beginning so I don't waste my time coloring their examples. Customers, pleasantly, don't seem to have the same prejudice - when I worked at one shop as a colorist alongside a colorist doing the solid color/soft shading thing our pets sold equally well.

Given my personal preferences, I would be a socialist and live in a world without money, where the only reward for making art would be praise/popularity, But since I have to live in a capitalist world, I at least find satisfaction in knowing that if people pay for my stuff, it's because they like it, and I try to brainstorm what customers would think is really cool (and thus pay more for.) Does that result in 'higher quality' art? Not directly, although I think it's totally debatable what 'quality' art is - I hate realism, so anyone whose definition of high quality art is art that is the most accurate depiction of reality, I don't agree at all. But I don't really care about an abstract definition of quality - I care about making customers go, "OMG how cool!!!" And that kind of thing is particularly easy to do in digital art through the use of textures and filters to make pets that sparkle like gemstones, have skin made out of pearls or imprinted with circuits, or fur made out of billowing flames or lightning and stormclouds.

That's all well and good if you have no overhead on materials. A traditional artist has to pay for those canvasses and paints and all. Very little art would be made if there was no money involved.

[God-the-almighty]

redcommet

cg art is just like any other tool. How do you think the traditional painters of the mid 20th century felt when the airbrush came out. Same thing a few hundred years ago when Impressionist painting first came out into play. People who never drew or painted started buying paint in these crazy new containers you could buy in stores and would just try to make shapes with colors. They didn't understand croma, value, or hue. History repeats itself, in a few decades there will be some new tool to create art that any one can pick up. The thing to remember is once a market(cg illustration) becomes over flooded with a product people will get pickier, competition will get fiercer and the weak will be weeded out. I am a traditional illustrator like you, but I also use the comp to digitally paint. There are methods to digital painting that really emulate traditional painting. The difference there is you can make more money by selling the original art(painting)

Twisted brush is a good program, it mimics many media.

[K to the Tizzle]

I know how you feel. It kinda makes me feel annoyed when people value my crappy CG higher then my hard worked traditional. But if you really work hard on traditional you can make >more< then CG.

I worked hard at improving and was able to get a REALLY nice amount of gold for watercolor headshots. A lot more then I could have made with CG.

There are lots of traditional art lovers on GO. They will love to buy it and will probably be willing to spend more then they would on CG.


I know its frustrating to see noob artists who just do crappy anatomy and color all in the same style and stuff like that...

But the thing is that they won't acomplish much with that. Seriously. Sure they might get gaia gold but what's that of any value in RL? None at all.

I've seen many good artist throw their skill away by just doing the same thing over and over. Always doing digital. They end up not able to draw well with anything BUT tablet. ( Sadly one of my friends is like this.... )

So you shouldnt be angry, you should be proud. Don't stoop down and sell your art lower then what you think its worth just to beat CG people. Just do what you think is fair and you WILL get customers eventually. I've seen crap expensive CG art be sold, it just takes time eventually you'll find someone who likes your art.

@_@ Excuse me if my writting is scattered, I'm thinking not very well right now.

[wickeddelight]

God-the-almighty

wickeddelight

Given my personal preferences, I would be a socialist and live in a world without money, where the only reward for making art would be praise/popularity

That's all well and good if you have no overhead on materials. A traditional artist has to pay for those canvasses and paints and all. Very little art would be made if there was no money involved.

Well, since a socialist world is a fantasy anyway, we might as well imagine one where art supplies are free too. *shrug* Perhaps in the future we will all have matter synthesizers and we will be able to distribute paintings and sculptures just by the artist scanning them in and the customers printing them out.

[God-the-almighty]

wickeddelight

God-the-almighty

wickeddelight

Given my personal preferences, I would be a socialist and live in a world without money, where the only reward for making art would be praise/popularity

That's all well and good if you have no overhead on materials. A traditional artist has to pay for those canvasses and paints and all. Very little art would be made if there was no money involved.

Well, since a socialist world is a fantasy anyway, we might as well imagine one where art supplies are free too. *shrug* Perhaps in the future we will all have matter synthesizers and we will be able to distribute paintings and sculptures just by the artist scanning them in and the customers printing them out.

Collectors will always pay more for originals. But that'd be cool if it was like that.

[arrogantchild]

The thing about art is that the ends are often times more important than the means...at least when it comes to the customers. Effort does not matter when it comes to producing visually appealing art. You can slave all day in front of a drawing tablet or computer and produce nothing but crap, while another artist who is far more skilled than you produces a sketch twice as magnificent as your drawing in about 1/8th the time.

Customers are not like your 1st grade elementary school teacher. They are not obligated to pat you on the back or attach sentimental value to your work because you tried your best. Most people who shop for art are just looking for something good looking. What you've got just might be "it" for them.

You should take pride in the fact that you are skilled. But if the lack of business really concerns you, you should just switch mediums.

[Pink]

Yeah, well, the general consumer is often blind and has bad taste, despite its number of undos CG can't hide a crappy artist, and CG is just another medium anyway, translates better in a digital world, can't be helped, people who can scan real media pieces well are a minority of what amateurs do, blahblahblah.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, I'd like to know this: Beyond practice, what on earth makes people want to use up their real materials-- paper, inks, marker pigment, color pencils, whatever, on Gaia commissions? I'm honestly curious. I wouldn't dare use anything I have to pay for (beyond the initial investment of my computer, programs, and tablet which I would have owned anyway) for virtual gold commissions. The thought of blowing materials I had to leave the country for or special order to get, being used to draw someone's avatar, and not even for real money? Absolutely horrifying to me. Oil paint is like $25 a tube sometimes-- like hell if I'd use that on a Gaia commission. D:>

What makes you guys want to do it? Personally I'd rather lose my own materials to free experimentation over something like this.

[wickeddelight]

Pink

Okay, now that that's out of the way, I'd like to know this: Beyond practice, what on earth makes people want to use up their real materials-- paper, inks, marker pigment, color pencils, whatever, on Gaia commissions? I'm honestly curious. I wouldn't dare use anything I have to pay for (beyond the initial investment of my computer, programs, and tablet which I would have owned anyway) for virtual gold commissions. The thought of blowing materials I had to leave the country for or special order to get, being used to draw someone's avatar, and not even for real money? Absolutely horrifying to me. Oil paint is like $25 a tube sometimes-- like hell if I'd use that on a Gaia commission. D:>

What makes you guys want to do it? Personally I'd rather lose my own materials to free experimentation over something like this.

Watercolors, crayola/roseart markers, jellyroll pens, and paper are all cheap, and I personally think it's more fun, and usually faster, to use them than it is to CG. So if people want to commission me to use those materials I'm perfectly happy to do so. Other materials, nah. I agree that I'm not using materials that cost real money unless I'm getting paid in real money.

[Bottled Poe]

The title is meant to be how it is. Traditional Artists < CG Artists. It's supposed to be an opposite effect. Anyway...

I AM kind of aiming for the teenage/anime fan, I want to do artist's alley at cons. Even there, CG is a much more popular medium, despite the fact that it's NOT online, and traditional mediums should look better in real life, on paper there.

I suppose the majority of the anime community, much prefer CG to other because of it's 'shiny' look, as is repetitively said.

I just wish more people would appreciate traditional work, and the artists. It does take a lot of work to get effective colouring done, and it's nice to be recognized, instead of left in the dust.

I take pride in my medium choice, because it's nice to be different, it's fun, and I enjoy doing it. I am not averse, in any way, to using a tablet. Using as many mediums as possible and growing with them, is what makes a cultured artist- an artist able to use any form to create fantastic art. This is what I want to become.

I am just explaining my irks with the CG community being so overrated.

[zaMmaP]

*too lazy to read all the post*

What's this I keep hearing about scanned work being bad looking? I scan stuff into the computer all the time and only once have I been displeased with the results. Sure you have to "touch up" on photoshop after wards but I manage to get them on the computer.

I haven't sold art on gaia since last year when I had a strange block of free time and gave it a go. The shop lasted only like a week and ALL my art was hand drawn. People bitched when I closed shop and there were two people on the end of the list who didn't get to have their art drawn, so the idea that traditional art doesn't sell is a flat lie. And at the time I didn't even have photoshop to touch up and color the work, they bought it as is!

[Bottled Poe]

zaMmaP

*too lazy to read all the post*

What's this I keep hearing about scanned work being bad looking? I scan stuff into the computer all the time and only once have I been displeased with the results. Sure you have to "touch up" on photoshop after wards but I manage to get them on the computer.

I haven't sold art on gaia since last year when I had a strange block of free time and gave it a go. The shop lasted only like a week and ALL my art was hand drawn. People bitched when I closed shop and there were two people on the end of the list who didn't get to have their art drawn, so the idea that traditional art doesn't sell is a flat lie. And at the time I didn't even have photoshop to touch up and color the work, they bought it as is!

Of course. I have people purchasing from me frequently, also.

The only thing I have a hard time with is when the picture scans, the pixels around the picture are difficult to get rid of without washing out the colour. :/

[zaMmaP]

Then apply contrasting only to that outside area. Unless you're not using photoshop...

[Invisible-Elephant v2]

Braindead Kappa

Yes, I was also going to address the "undo" thing.

It's very much HARDER to correct a mistake made with traditional materials, rather than computer work. You cannot deny that. It's much faster, easier in the sense that it doesn't take as much time, or effort to click a button, rather than start over, or paint over etc.

That's more or less what i was getting at, but the 'feature' (for lack of a better word) does exist. But as everyone has said, most people who aren't the young teen, blah blah, whatever market i named last time, do not actually use the undo button. I can't relefct to much on that as i use Illustrator, which is a completely different method to most Digital painting, but i'm also on of the ones who work on one layer primarily when i do go across to Photoshop/Painter.



And on another note... If you're wanting to sell traditional media pics to anime fanatics at cons and the likes, your best bet is probably using alcohol based markers such as copics and prismas. Standard anime doesn't suit itself well to you using pencil or paint as it doesn't look the same as the shiny shiny anime. Copics do get the same effect though, and are partly designed for use on manga/anime styles (see copic sketch). It is a shitload of money though to get a decent collection :<
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TRUMPET!!!

[Bottled Poe]

Invisible Elephant

Braindead Kappa

Yes, I was also going to address the "undo" thing.

It's very much HARDER to correct a mistake made with traditional materials, rather than computer work. You cannot deny that. It's much faster, easier in the sense that it doesn't take as much time, or effort to click a button, rather than start over, or paint over etc.

That's more or less what i was getting at, but the 'feature' (for lack of a better word) does exist. But as everyone has said, most people who aren't the young teen, blah blah, whatever market i named last time, do not actually use the undo button. I can't relefct to much on that as i use Illustrator, which is a completely different method to most Digital painting, but i'm also on of the ones who work on one layer primarily when i do go across to Photoshop/Painter.



And on another note... If you're wanting to sell traditional media pics to anime fanatics at cons and the likes, your best bet is probably using alcohol based markers such as copics and prismas. Standard anime doesn't suit itself well to you using pencil or paint as it doesn't look the same as the shiny shiny anime. Copics do get the same effect though, and are partly designed for use on manga/anime styles (see copic sketch). It is a shitload of money though to get a decent collection :<
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TRUMPET!!!

Yes, more experiences artists maybe do not have to, or do not use the 'undo' button. But in the first post, I am specifically talking about the inexperienced artists who think they're awesome just because they use CG.

Yes, copic markers are an excellent traditional tool to use, but painstakingly expensive. I do not currently have the funds to purchase these, so I use what I do have. However, I would love to start working with copics also.