Talen Robotnik
In this case the artist can say that he/she doesn't want redlines in the first post. Of course there can be people who red-line the picture ignoring -or not reading- what the artist said, but this is another thing.
If you're doing something that is potentially offensive, I think it's up to the critiquer to ask for permission, not for the artist to have to list a bunch of Do's and Don't Do's in their first post. I realize that posting in Picture Post automatically means that critiques should be accepted. But many artists view red-lining as a step beyond that.
In everyday society, if you want to do something that might cause offense, you ask first. "Mind if I smoke?" "Mind if I answer this call really quickly?" "Should I take my shoes off in your house?" You don't meet someone and expect them to say upfront, "Hello! Just a few rules first..." I just view it simply as an act of courtesy.
Talen Robotnik
In my opinion this depends on the artist's will. They may think "Why learning anatomy when I can post my pictures on the forum, get people red-line them and eyeball corrections?" but they may even think "Uhm, so I've always drawn the arms too long... I should pay more attention, hell I should learn anatomy!".
I think that If an artist isn't willing to think critically it doesn't matter if you red-line the drawing or write a perfect critique.
Oh, I'd agree with you there. The artist has to want to think critically, absolutely.
But say I was an artist who did want to try to figure things out for myself. And someone comes and red-lines my work without me asking for it. I see the red-line. And it's too late. They've shown me the solution before I could work it out on my own. They've just taken the choice away from me.
Most sites I've been to, it's been standard to ask before doing anything like red-lining. It used to be that way at Pic Post too, but I haven't been there in forever, so I don't know if things have changed.
Talen Robotnik
I understand what you mean, but it's kinda inevitable; I like to think that an artist is able to ignore some stylistic choices that don't belong to him/her and to his/her style though.
Do you mean kinda inevitable with red-lining or critique in general? I think it's more apparent in red-lining, which is why I don't like it and would never ask for it at Gaia. And it's why I'd be angry if someone did want to red-line my work without asking.
As for whether or not an artist can ignore stylistic choices, that depends in part on the skill of the artist. I think beginners are less likely to be able to see the difference since they haven't developed their artist's eye just yet.
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Eejbeej
This is also true, though less obvious, in written critiques. All critiques, it doesn't matter who it's from or what form it's in, should be taken as suggestions and not as Holy Word. Humans are human and thus fallible, no matter how experienced. I've seen written critiques corrected by someone other than the one who posted it several times. It just happens.
A critique is meant to make the artist think and to get them to see their work in a different light in the hopes that they'll catch on what they need to fix and improve upon and that they'll defend that which doesn't need fixing or improvement.
As someone else pointed out, most artists are visual learners, after all art is a right-brained activity and the right brain is the strongly visual side. For a lot of artists written word doesn't explain nearly as well as an image does.
I'll say again, no critique, drawn or written, is the be all and end all. Mistakes are expected and the artist shouldn't be so blind as to follow every suggestion they see to a T. Free thought is valuable, use it.
(As a side note, every drawing class that I've been in, the instructors will draw directly on your work. Only the polished, end pieces get saved this treatment.)
I agree with you.
Unfortunately, while it's true in theory, it often doesn't happen in practice. Especially at a place like Pic Post in which many of the artists (and a few of the critiquers) are at a beginner level. All too often I see kids taking critiquers' word as ultimately correct. Even when the critiquers are flat out wrong. They trust the critiquer and they don't yet have the skills they need to actually see the errors just yet.
IMO (and I admit it's just my opinion) a red-line tends to show the critiquer's biases and errors much more than a written critique would. It's why I really don't think an artist should red-line unless they're at an advanced level themselves.
As for learning in a class, that's a different situation. The person doing the red-lining is a professional teacher. I would assume they have the skills. And they would be more aware of imposing style onto the work and try to avoid that. And the people learning from them are serious about their art and hopefully have learned to trust in their own eyes first and evaluate whether or not their teacher is giving good advice or not. Pic Post is a far cry from a proper art class, I would think.
And even if one feels that red-lining is a great way to learn, IMO, one should still ask before doing it to someone else's work. That was my main point, really, that people should simply ask.
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