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By way of introduction, I'm an undergraduate student of Philosophy with a strong interest in art and aesthetics, and am something of a veteran Extended Discussion poster.

I love art. I hate this forum.

So, how to make this productive? Create a thread to examine the issue at hand.


A general consensus seems to have arisen on this particular forum that anything can be art. Not just that sketches, crudely copied cartoons and home-made mangas are art, but that skies, food and plants are also art.

So, two questions:

Do you feel I am correct in my view that an unusually subjective approach prevails here?

To what degree do you feel that there exist things which cannot be art?
azureLAfrizan's avatar

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art is everything..every creation I believe...from two people talking to a grain of sand.. and I believe what my teacher said that expressing art in your own way is a revelation of your inner self...i love art!!

mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen mrgreen
Pink's avatar

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Ah, hello. smile
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In the interest of getting sleep tonight/this morning I'll get straight to the point.

1. I'd like to think that the quality of the "general consensus" (read: majority's consensus) on this forum is pretty questionable. Hell, I bet there's a general consensus on even THAT opinion here.

2. What can't be art? In the general sense of the (largely encompassing) term, "art", it seems pretty cut and dry to me. Regardless of medium I think art doesn't exist without (human?) intent (to make art). However, if the question turns into what counts as fine art, or good art, or even horrible art and all points in between that's when the areas turn gray. So, unlike Little Miss Rainbow Farts up there, I don't think random grains of sand can be art just through the virtue of existence.
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Everything is art is a stupid view point. It's like saying "everyone is special." It's impossible to distinguish what something is if everything is that something.

Like, taking a dump isn't art.

...unless maybe you sculpted your s**t into something interesting...

Art takes a conscious human effort and use of skill and imagination to create something. >_> Then add adjectives accordingly for commercial art, fine art, good art, bad art, performance art, so on and so forth.
A.D.1492's avatar

Precious Cat

Everybody IS special. biggrin

And...not a big fan of Baumgarten and the rest of the bunch...

And no, not everything is art as a lot of people [ here ] seem to think. Your crappy doodle is not art and your emo myspace pic is not art and a cellphone pic of your ugly pet is not art... biggrin

And also, I would love if people would try to distinguish art and craft. I think we evolved from the stage when sculpture, warfare, cooking and medicine and politics and any and every field of human accomplishment and creativity.

There was techne, now we have art and craft, thank you.

The vast majority of what people here qualify as and sell as art is not art at all but a weak attempt at being unskilled at craft.

[ i wonder if i make any sense at all ]
Invictus_88

So, two questions:

Do you feel I am correct in my view that an unusually subjective approach prevails here?

To what degree do you feel that there exist things which cannot be art?


How is it unusually subjective? Art is subjective. What has Modernism and Postmodernism taught us? To challenge how and what we perceive as art, conceptually and aesthetically.
There is no objectivity in art, it can always be challenged because it relies soley on how we as an individual experience it. What art means to someone can be the opposite of someone else - we all have our personal definitions as artists and audience alike.
My personal definition of art is something that requires one or more of:
-aesthetics.
-conceptually enriched.
-Evokes thought
-Skill/talent
I admire you're attempt but honestly, you're probably not gonna get the answers you want off of the general populace here.

That being said...

Warning: Large Rant. May offend many people/everybody.


I have an extremely harsh view on art, I'll admit it. I hate "art for art's sake" and generally despise most "modern art." I dislike the general idea that modern art embodies, that art can be anything, and the truth is it can't. There's shitty art but the modern art age seems to have coupled it with it's ok cause it's art. This atmosphere encourages mediocrity in art, where they show artists like Picasso as the pinnacle of artistic achievement even though they only show one or two eras and always skim over the thinking and evolution involved in his work. Without mentioning the years of traditional training Picasso went through, without the years of figure drawing, and skill building and the evolution of stylistic achievements behind his works, they get a skewed view of what art is. They think it's just abstract painting with no thought behind it, they think art can be anything and they accept it because it's easy. Abstract is presented in such a way that all the thinking, and the ideas behind it aren't important anymore, just that it's abstract. Think it's all splashing paint and drawing ill proportioned monstrosities. Now a three year old can roll in paint on a canvas and people will sell it as "art."

This forum especially, many like to say art can be anything, because they're taught that way, they're shown these terrible concepts and shoddy draftsmanship and then are told, it's art, because you can't judge what's not art. I'm all for arts in school, I just disagree with the way it's represented, encourage students from a young age abstract is alright even though the deeper meaning and theories behind it are skimmed over to make it "understandable" for students. I'm not even against abstract art, if the concept and thought behind it is unique or interesting, that's to say, like Mondrian's intricate studies on composition and cityscapes translated into simple colors and shapes, I'm all for it(though I'm still pretty adamant 80% of modern abstract is bullcrap). But this applies to this forum acutely because it's populated by children, and younger age group, they are told that art can be anything. Point in case, they like to say "art is everything." It is not, they like to say it because they're not really artists, because they're looking at it from an outsiders point of view with the shallowest interpretation and thinking, "I can do that." It'll be easy to poop out any steaming pile of crap and then call it "art."

It's wrong, art isn't just what is visually in front of someone, it's the idea behind it. It doesn't even have to be complicated, it could just be, I wanted to study light, or high key concept paintings, but it has to be legitimate in my book. Character design with emphasis of form is just as legitimate as concept art for video games. It's not just drawing something, it's figuring out the mechanics of good design and aesthetics. I hate most of all people with no skill or goal who try to legitimize their own work by making excuses, "It's art." "It's my style." " I'm expressing myself." Any scribble can be defended with "It's art."



Ugh, sorry about the rant, I just have to deal with... a lot of people who are like, directly against my way of thinking. (I tutor people at my school... I build up an amazing amount of hatred in very little time.) Rant aside, really I'll know within one painting or drawing if the artist is good. Like my teacher always says, there's 10% good art, and there's !0% bad art, and then there's everything else that's pretending to be art. Plus I'm pretty shallow when it comes to art, I have a few exceptions.
`Roguey
Invictus_88

So, two questions:

Do you feel I am correct in my view that an unusually subjective approach prevails here?

To what degree do you feel that there exist things which cannot be art?


How is it unusually subjective? Art is subjective. [snip-postmodernistcrap]


It is unusually subjective because a common view here is not just that the relative value of artworks and art-movements is subjective, but that what constitutes art is subjective and subjective to the point where almost nothing can be excluded from its remit.
Saying that everything is art is the equivalent of saying that every sound is music.

Can you use any sound to make music? Yes. But that doesn't mean that the sound alone can be considered music. In order to make music you need to create rhythm.

I'm not going to touch on modernism and post modernism because I despise both movements. Not for the art itself, but because we have them to thank for this completely retarded "everything is art" mentality.
Well, this is a late reply, but I'll forge ahead anyway. I believe beauty's in the eye of the beholder. I'm moderately critical and I accept that some people like myself, who are amateurs, are trying though what we produce may not be considered art (or 'fine art') by the majority, but getting into that is another can of worms.

I guess some people might say that not all art has to be 'beautiful', but even if you call something ugly, if you enjoy looking at it, then there's something you find aesthetically pleasing, isn't there?

As a sorta disjointed example: Do I think all anime and manga are nice to look at - no, I enjoy some of them, but I'm sure as s**t not gonna change anyone's mind if they believe it's all wonderful pretty sparkly amazing tralala highest form of artistic expression ever. It is highly subjective.

ETA: Umm, I just realized this isn't the subforum I thought it was. Don't mind me.
Quote:


And no, not everything is art as a lot of people [ here ] seem to think. Your crappy doodle is not art and your emo myspace pic is not art and a cellphone pic of your ugly pet is not art... biggrin


HAHA!!!

[ahem] of course art is subjective. saving up your nasty used tampons for a year and then putting them on display in a snooty a** gallery is NOT art. just because i don't find that aesthetically pleasing to look at and think its stupid, someone thinks its art...so it doesn't mean its not art. anything can be art if you know the right people.
Shitty art is still art, but it's shitty. We don't care about shitty art, and we forget that they exist.

I'll let you determine if the above can be reduced to "shitty art is not art".
I don't know what art is, but I hope that the drawings I work on for hours are considered art lol.
For myself, I've only recently started calling myself an artist because after one and a half years studying drawing at school has changed the way I think about myself as an artist.
Because of this, I don't know what to call art. I don't despise contemporary practice, I just don't like the majority of it.
I don't see majority of so-called "art" posted and displayed on this forum to be considered art, but then kitsch art tends to attract the opposite end of the artistic scale. Pretty much all of anime art is kitsch and because of this Gaia's art forum is full of little people drawing disembodied heads with gigantic eyes and no tonal scale, and they all call themselves artists.
If you're looking for art that is not anime art then stick to independent artist web spaces or art books or just hang out at galleries and art spaces.
But I don't know how reliable I am because I only started feeling like an artist (and not an art student) recently.
I agree art is a lot of things not just a sketch or painting it is nature life things that are fleeting but can also be eternal...like writing is a form of art....music....all of the different seasons its all sorts of things because art is something that is created
AIATTAUA
I agree art is a lot of things not just a sketch or painting it is nature life things that are fleeting but can also be eternal...like writing is a form of art....music....all of the different seasons its all sorts of things because art is something that is created


lol, that sounded like a whole lot of wank to me.
Yeah, art critics and arts writers always do sound like they are spouting a lot of wank XD.

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