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Linedhel's avatar

Distinct Elocutionist

Eflow Nivek
Linedhel
Eflow Nivek
Linedhel

Eflow Nivek
Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)
They're compared to liches because they have phylacteries. They're not actually dead, either spiritually or biologically.
Liches, as an undead creature, are in the same classification as zombies and are bound to corpses, you know, dead bodies. They are biologically dead without their soul gem as we saw in episode 8, I think, when Sayaka's soul gem was separated from her body she had all the anime classifications of being dead.
They're compared to liches. They are not liches. All Sayaka's episode proved is that you will die if your soul is moved far away from your body. That does not prove that your body is already dead.

But she did not die, QB said that she was still alive in the gem. Once the gem was returned to her corpse, her body reanimated. That's the definition of an undead creature: a creature that can die but is reanimated through various means.
If her gem had remained away from her body for a sufficient period of time, she would have stayed dead. Hence the hurry to return it.

Likewise, bodies can be resuscitated after being biologically dead for a short period, in some cases. Restarting a stopped heart is largely down to luck, and hurrying fast enough that the brain is still alive. (A human brain can survive without oxygen for about 3 minutes before it is seriously damaged, and about 10 minutes before it is completely gone.)

This is somewhat beside the point, but liches do not need to remain near their phylacteries, unlike Puella Magi.
Eflow Nivek's avatar

Mega Lunatic

Linedhel
If her gem had remained away from her body for a sufficient period of time, she would have stayed dead. Hence the hurry to return it.

Likewise, bodies can be resuscitated after being biologically dead for a short period, in some cases. Restarting a stopped heart is largely down to luck, and hurrying fast enough that the brain is still alive. (A human brain can survive without oxygen for about 3 minutes before it is seriously damaged, and about 10 minutes before it is completely gone.)

This is somewhat beside the point, but liches do not need to remain near their phylacteries, unlike Puella Magi.
No, the hurry was that if it got too far away they would never find it and Sayaka's soul would've stayed within that gem. However, I dispute the last part because they have regeneration powers, as long as the soul gem is returned to her corpse she would theoretically be able to heal given she had enough Soul Points left.

If you want to bring in biology you then have to consider that she would have died in that fight with Kyoko as well.

Right, because all liches are exactly the same. Just like how all zombies are the same, right?
Rika - Primerose Princess's avatar

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Okay everyone.
Madoka did not kill anyone because they were already dieing.
She couldn't just keep them alive because that would mess things up further. You saw what happened when she got rid of witches altogether right? That change spawned a completely different being to take form. So what do you think would happen if she kept people alive when they were supposed to die? Probably cause millions of people to die or something in the process.

The ending was not rushed it was well thought out and the manga was made BEFORE the anime, thus the ending was already there neutral

Also the wish she made helped, she knew that sacrificing herself was something she could do because she had that much power, I'm not sure that making a wish to bring dead girls back to life would be able to be done without destroying everything and then she wouldn't even be able to do ANYTHING. talk2hand
Linedhel's avatar

Distinct Elocutionist

Eflow Nivek
No, the hurry was that if it got too far away they would never find it and Sayaka's soul would've stayed within that gem. However, I dispute the last part because they have regeneration powers, as long as the soul gem is returned to her corpse she would theoretically be able to heal given she had enough Soul Points left.

If you want to bring in biology you then have to consider that she would have died in that fight with Kyoko as well.

Right, because all liches are exactly the same. Just like how all zombies are the same, right?
All liches share common traits, and one of these is that they do not need to be near their phylactery. Liches are based on older and less popularly varied stories than zombies. PMMM never references liches explicitly so it cannot itself be used as a counterexample.

Yes, they can regenerate, but the extent of their regeneration is not known, and a clearly dead Puella Magi regenerating is never shown. Also, it should be noted that Sayaka's regenerative ability is abnormal and a function of her Wish. That other Puella Magi can regenerate in similar fashion is partially speculative, though I believe it to be the case.

I'm not sure what you mean about the fight with Kyouko. The first one, where they met? No, Kyouko wasn't even trying to kill her. There's no reason for her to have died there.

I think you may have misunderstood me in the first place: When I said that they are biologically alive, I did mean biologically alive. This is defined according to their vital functions--heartbeat, breathing, and brain activity. A doctor would pronounce them to be living, therefore they are, officially, alive. Medical doctors are the experts on this subject.
Eflow Nivek's avatar

Mega Lunatic

Linedhel
Eflow Nivek
No, the hurry was that if it got too far away they would never find it and Sayaka's soul would've stayed within that gem. However, I dispute the last part because they have regeneration powers, as long as the soul gem is returned to her corpse she would theoretically be able to heal given she had enough Soul Points left.

If you want to bring in biology you then have to consider that she would have died in that fight with Kyoko as well.

Right, because all liches are exactly the same. Just like how all zombies are the same, right?
All liches share common traits, and one of these is that they do not need to be near their phylactery. Liches are based on older and less popularly varied stories than zombies. PMMM never references liches explicitly so it cannot itself be used as a counterexample.

Yes, they can regenerate, but the extent of their regeneration is not known, and a clearly dead Puella Magi regenerating is never shown. Also, it should be noted that Sayaka's regenerative ability is abnormal and a function of her Wish. That other Puella Magi can regenerate in similar fashion is partially speculative, though I believe it to be the case.

I'm not sure what you mean about the fight with Kyouko. The first one, where they met? No, Kyouko wasn't even trying to kill her. There's no reason for her to have died there.

I think you may have misunderstood me in the first place: When I said that they are biologically alive, I did mean biologically alive. This is defined according to their vital functions--heartbeat, breathing, and brain activity. A doctor would pronounce them to be living, therefore they are, officially, alive. Medical doctors are the experts on this subject.


I just think you're being pedantic on the use of lich, I mean other than the necessity of having their phylactery close, is there any reason not to call them a lich? I'm not sure if you've read anything else by Gen Urobuchi, but I'm sure making them liches was intentional. My point with the zombie example was that literary creatures and their abilities change over time.

It's never shown but implied. When Kyoko's father murdered his family, he killed Kyouko as well, but because she was an animated corpse she was able to live.

Sayaka was thrown into a wall and the fact that their bodies are still human bodies, that should have broken her back at the very least.

They're biologically alive as long as they have their phylactery intact and close, otherwise they are walking corpses.

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