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If by 'save' you mean kill people. And before that, the explanation of how Madoka is the strongest magical girl didn't really add up for me. But anyways..Kyubey, in our eyes, is evil. In his eyes, however..not so much. Since he has a very different morality and mentality than we humans do, he doesn't really see what he's doing as evil. After all, he's saving the universe. Who cares about a few girls when the universe gets to keep going?
You mean when she created a new universe? I guess that would be based on how you view it. I just think of it as rebuilding from the ashes. Everything is the same when she brought it back except Madoka wasn't supposed to exist physically and any magical girl who hatched a witch just died when their soul gems got tainted instead of becoming one.


And it's the final part of that universe-building that irkes me. In Madoka's wish, it doesn't state that she had to kill the Magical Girls that were going to be turned into Witches. However, this is just my personal opinion.
Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)


In the show, you could see that Madoka purified the soul gems before smashing them, which killed the girls. I don't really think that's called helping. That's usually called murder. And even if their souls are not in their bodies, the girls are still..living. Just in an odd way.

And yeah, not getting rid of entropy is another small problem.
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If by 'save' you mean kill people. And before that, the explanation of how Madoka is the strongest magical girl didn't really add up for me. But anyways..Kyubey, in our eyes, is evil. In his eyes, however..not so much. Since he has a very different morality and mentality than we humans do, he doesn't really see what he's doing as evil. After all, he's saving the universe. Who cares about a few girls when the universe gets to keep going?
You mean when she created a new universe? I guess that would be based on how you view it. I just think of it as rebuilding from the ashes. Everything is the same when she brought it back except Madoka wasn't supposed to exist physically and any magical girl who hatched a witch just died when their soul gems got tainted instead of becoming one.


And it's the final part of that universe-building that irkes me. In Madoka's wish, it doesn't state that she had to kill the Magical Girls that were going to be turned into Witches. However, this is just my personal opinion.

You know they would have been dead if they turned into witches anyway, right?
Like, Madoka didn't stop them from dying, doesn't mean she killed them. She just stopped them having a fate worse than death.
'tis how I viewed it anyhow...


Yes, their souls would have been out of their bodies, but the girls would still be living...just in an odd way. If that makes any sense. So I still view it as Madoka killing the girls.
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Yes, their souls would have been out of their bodies, but the girls would still be living...just in an odd way. If that makes any sense. So I still view it as Madoka killing the girls.

But she isn't o.e
their souls pretty much become nonexistant when they become witches.
If they retained sapient soulage then Kyoko's plan to reverse witchify Sayaka would have worked.
In the manga it's shown as the Magi going to "heaven" with Madoka. I'm not sure that's how it goes in the anime as it's not explained in a lot of depth...
whatever, follow your headcanon I suppose, it's as good as any.
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Yes, their souls would have been out of their bodies, but the girls would still be living...just in an odd way. If that makes any sense. So I still view it as Madoka killing the girls.

But she isn't o.e
their souls pretty much become nonexistant when they become witches.
If they retained sapient soulage then Kyoko's plan to reverse witchify Sayaka would have worked.
In the manga it's shown as the Magi going to "heaven" with Madoka. I'm not sure that's how it goes in the anime as it's not explained in a lot of depth...
whatever, follow your headcanon I suppose, it's as good as any.


Their souls are put into their Soul Gems-hence the name-so, they'd still be living, even when they become Witches. So, Madoka does kill them in the end. And Kyoko's plan, even with this knowledge, probably wouldn't have worked. Yes, the girls are still living when they turn into Witches, but when they turn, they can't turn back. Their souls are too corrupted.

It's kind of shown to be that way in the anime too..but even though they play it up as a good thing, it isn't. At least..not in my head. sweatdrop
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Yes, their souls would have been out of their bodies, but the girls would still be living...just in an odd way. If that makes any sense. So I still view it as Madoka killing the girls.

But she isn't o.e
their souls pretty much become nonexistant when they become witches.
If they retained sapient soulage then Kyoko's plan to reverse witchify Sayaka would have worked.
In the manga it's shown as the Magi going to "heaven" with Madoka. I'm not sure that's how it goes in the anime as it's not explained in a lot of depth...
whatever, follow your headcanon I suppose, it's as good as any.


Their souls are put into their Soul Gems-hence the name-so, they'd still be living, even when they become Witches. So, Madoka does kill them in the end. And Kyoko's plan, even with this knowledge, probably wouldn't have worked. Yes, the girls are still living when they turn into Witches, but when they turn, they can't turn back. Their souls are too corrupted.

It's kind of shown to be that way in the anime too..but even though they play it up as a good thing, it isn't. At least..not in my head. sweatdrop

You'd rather have them be reduced to a "And I Must Scream" state? Where they are doomed to be the very thing they sought to destroy, and destroy all that they sought to protect?
I'm sorry, but I think death would be a better option.
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Yes, their souls would have been out of their bodies, but the girls would still be living...just in an odd way. If that makes any sense. So I still view it as Madoka killing the girls.

But she isn't o.e
their souls pretty much become nonexistant when they become witches.
If they retained sapient soulage then Kyoko's plan to reverse witchify Sayaka would have worked.
In the manga it's shown as the Magi going to "heaven" with Madoka. I'm not sure that's how it goes in the anime as it's not explained in a lot of depth...
whatever, follow your headcanon I suppose, it's as good as any.


Their souls are put into their Soul Gems-hence the name-so, they'd still be living, even when they become Witches. So, Madoka does kill them in the end. And Kyoko's plan, even with this knowledge, probably wouldn't have worked. Yes, the girls are still living when they turn into Witches, but when they turn, they can't turn back. Their souls are too corrupted.

It's kind of shown to be that way in the anime too..but even though they play it up as a good thing, it isn't. At least..not in my head. sweatdrop

You'd rather have them be reduced to a "And I Must Scream" state? Where they are doomed to be the very thing they sought to destroy, and destroy all that they sought to protect?
I'm sorry, but I think death would be a better option.


There is a third option, which is the one I would like. Since it's show that Madoka purifies the Soul Gems before she smashes them, why can't she just purify them and leave it at that? Make a universe where only the death of a Magical Girl would cure entropy.
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If by 'save' you mean kill people. And before that, the explanation of how Madoka is the strongest magical girl didn't really add up for me. But anyways..Kyubey, in our eyes, is evil. In his eyes, however..not so much. Since he has a very different morality and mentality than we humans do, he doesn't really see what he's doing as evil. After all, he's saving the universe. Who cares about a few girls when the universe gets to keep going?
You mean when she created a new universe? I guess that would be based on how you view it. I just think of it as rebuilding from the ashes. Everything is the same when she brought it back except Madoka wasn't supposed to exist physically and any magical girl who hatched a witch just died when their soul gems got tainted instead of becoming one.


And it's the final part of that universe-building that irkes me. In Madoka's wish, it doesn't state that she had to kill the Magical Girls that were going to be turned into Witches. However, this is just my personal opinion.
Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)


In the show, you could see that Madoka purified the soul gems before smashing them, which killed the girls. I don't really think that's called helping. That's usually called murder. And even if their souls are not in their bodies, the girls are still..living. Just in an odd way.

And yeah, not getting rid of entropy is another small problem.
I see it in the same way I see transition steps in chemistry. She destroys a witch before they are created, but to even create a witch the soul gem must be fully corrupted. So she jumps in at the transition state and stops them from beoming witches.

Putting it another way she steps in right before they become a witch, but right after the gem is fully corrupted. Since the latter is negated the former resolves normally resulting in the death of the magical girl. If you look at it as depleting their soul gems and by extension their souls' power, she's not killing them but simply stopping them from becoming a witch.
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If by 'save' you mean kill people. And before that, the explanation of how Madoka is the strongest magical girl didn't really add up for me. But anyways..Kyubey, in our eyes, is evil. In his eyes, however..not so much. Since he has a very different morality and mentality than we humans do, he doesn't really see what he's doing as evil. After all, he's saving the universe. Who cares about a few girls when the universe gets to keep going?
You mean when she created a new universe? I guess that would be based on how you view it. I just think of it as rebuilding from the ashes. Everything is the same when she brought it back except Madoka wasn't supposed to exist physically and any magical girl who hatched a witch just died when their soul gems got tainted instead of becoming one.


And it's the final part of that universe-building that irkes me. In Madoka's wish, it doesn't state that she had to kill the Magical Girls that were going to be turned into Witches. However, this is just my personal opinion.
Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)


In the show, you could see that Madoka purified the soul gems before smashing them, which killed the girls. I don't really think that's called helping. That's usually called murder. And even if their souls are not in their bodies, the girls are still..living. Just in an odd way.

And yeah, not getting rid of entropy is another small problem.
I see it in the same way I see transition steps in chemistry. She destroys a witch before they are created, but to even create a witch the soul gem must be fully corrupted. So she jumps in at the transition state and stops them from beoming witches.

Putting it another way she steps in right before they become a witch, but right after the gem is fully corrupted. Since the latter is negated the former resolves normally resulting in the death of the magical girl. If you look at it as depleting their soul gems and by extension their souls' power, she's not killing them but simply stopping them from becoming a witch.


You are right on where Madoka jumps in, but the thing of it is, she doesn't have to kill them or deplete their Soul Gems. She could just make a universe where the Soul Gems were just purified, have the girls just die by demons/Witches, and have entropy be cured by the deaths of those girls.
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And it's the final part of that universe-building that irkes me. In Madoka's wish, it doesn't state that she had to kill the Magical Girls that were going to be turned into Witches. However, this is just my personal opinion.
Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)


In the show, you could see that Madoka purified the soul gems before smashing them, which killed the girls. I don't really think that's called helping. That's usually called murder. And even if their souls are not in their bodies, the girls are still..living. Just in an odd way.

And yeah, not getting rid of entropy is another small problem.
I see it in the same way I see transition steps in chemistry. She destroys a witch before they are created, but to even create a witch the soul gem must be fully corrupted. So she jumps in at the transition state and stops them from beoming witches.

Putting it another way she steps in right before they become a witch, but right after the gem is fully corrupted. Since the latter is negated the former resolves normally resulting in the death of the magical girl. If you look at it as depleting their soul gems and by extension their souls' power, she's not killing them but simply stopping them from becoming a witch.


You are right on where Madoka jumps in, but the thing of it is, she doesn't have to kill them or deplete their Soul Gems. She could just make a universe where the Soul Gems were just purified, have the girls just die by demons/Witches, and have entropy be cured by the deaths of those girls.
She's not killing them and they already used up all their power. Could she have made a wish to prevent their power drain? No one knows because we would need to have background on the technology used to make them magical girls in the first place. I doubt it though because the soul gem, which by extension is their soul, is their power source and gets depleted when they use magic. Also, remember that entropy is countered by the emotions of the girls, primarily their despair not their death. Curses, which I feel are negative human emotions, replace pubescent girl despair.
The evil claws of Urobuchi Gen is to make grown men shed manly tears... and he succeeded.

I agree that Madoka is not "killing" them, probably they're just being transferred into some kind of energy that Kyubey needs...
Those magic girls who passed away smiled at their last moment because they know they will not turn into witches, they still got hope (being a good magic girl who gives other hope and happiness), not despair (being a witch who brings despair and sadness).
Come on people of course she is killing them, that is very obvious. It wouldnt be as touching if she wasnt. They smile as they die b/c at least its over and they know that they wont kill those that they love. Death is just as important as life.
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To be honest, Madoka wasn't bad until it's last two episodes. The way they try to logically explain how Madoka should be the strongest-when it should be Homura-and how Madoka treats the Magical Girls at the end makes me want to smack Orabuchi. Other than that, the show wasn't bad. The characters were a little flat, but other than those two episodes, it was alright.
Really? The ending made perfect sense to me, and didn't even feel rushed.

Eflow Nivek
Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)
They're compared to liches because they have phylacteries. They're not actually dead, either spiritually or biologically.

Momo_White Shinigami

You are right on where Madoka jumps in, but the thing of it is, she doesn't have to kill them or deplete their Soul Gems. She could just make a universe where the Soul Gems were just purified, have the girls just die by demons/Witches, and have entropy be cured by the deaths of those girls.
It's easy to claim after the fact that a Wish (capital 'W') should have been phrased better than it was. Easy for the audience. After the fact. That a middle school girl came up with a solution as good as she did should be impressive enough, and personally I did not expect her solution to even be allowed--for one thing, it proved that the Incubators can't actually reject Wishes.

We can speculate that she could have made a better Wish, but it's just speculation in the end. There are limits to how great a Wish can be--this was stated. It's dependent on the potential power of the Puella Magi, which has something to do with potential effect on history, which was increased in Madoka's case by the repeated world jumping. This wasn't a random story element--it was necessary that it be focused on Madoka and not Homura to lead into Homura's final despair as Kyubey explained the facts to her. Furthermore, the specifics of the Wish did not state the method by which it would be accomplished, and yet it still resulted in the negative energy/despair/corruption of all Puella Magi throughout history being concentrated into Madoka. From this we could similarly speculate that had she wished for unlimited purification of all Puella Magi that she would surpass her own limits, and it's a safe bet that wishing for a safe, clean, convenient end to entropy would have outright failed.

Not to mention, a safe, clean, convenient ending would have gone against the atmosphere and intents of the story, and would have been boring.
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Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)
They're compared to liches because they have phylacteries. They're not actually dead, either spiritually or biologically.
Liches, as an undead creature, are in the same classification as zombies and are bound to corpses, you know, dead bodies. They are biologically dead without their soul gem as we saw in episode 8, I think, when Sayaka's soul gem was separated from her body she had all the anime classifications of being dead.
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Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)
They're compared to liches because they have phylacteries. They're not actually dead, either spiritually or biologically.
Liches, as an undead creature, are in the same classification as zombies and are bound to corpses, you know, dead bodies. They are biologically dead without their soul gem as we saw in episode 8, I think, when Sayaka's soul gem was separated from her body she had all the anime classifications of being dead.
They're compared to liches. They are not liches. All Sayaka's episode proved is that you will die if your soul is moved far away from your body. That does not prove that your body is already dead.
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Her wish was to erase witches before they were born which means that a magical girl must go through the corruption of their soul-gem before she can help them. Plus, they're already liches anyway they're already dead.

However, why she didn't wish to re-write entropy is another question. Assuming holding off entropy is what Kyubey really wanted.

(captcha: do you believe in miracles?)
They're compared to liches because they have phylacteries. They're not actually dead, either spiritually or biologically.
Liches, as an undead creature, are in the same classification as zombies and are bound to corpses, you know, dead bodies. They are biologically dead without their soul gem as we saw in episode 8, I think, when Sayaka's soul gem was separated from her body she had all the anime classifications of being dead.
They're compared to liches. They are not liches. All Sayaka's episode proved is that you will die if your soul is moved far away from your body. That does not prove that your body is already dead.

But she did not die, QB said that she was still alive in the gem. Once the gem was returned to her corpse, her body reanimated. That's the definition of an undead creature: a creature that can die but is reanimated through various means.

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