NaruHina or HinaKiba?

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

RanmaxHikaru

[Ren The Ryoko]

Neither has Naruto.

No but that has much more if a chance of happening now that they may see each other again. Also at least it's one sided for now. KibaxHinata and NejixHinata doesn't even have that going for them.

Yeah, but to be fair, Neji seems to notice her more. Just sayin.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

She was thinking of Naruto's feelings, trying to protect him, trying to save Naruto the pain of having to fight Sasuke himself, and trying to do something on her own.

Because lying about her love for him with a nervous smile was totally helpful right?


And none of your "SHE WASN'T CONFESSING IN THAT PICTURE!" Naruto could see that the only reason she confessed was because she thought he was obligated to her for the promise he made. And please don't give me that "OMG SHE WASN'T LYING THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT SHE WAS!". Naruto said she was lying and since this is a shonun you are suppose believe what the main characters says."IT WAS ONLY AFTER THE PRE TIME SKIP MEMORIES! AND HE JUST CAN'T BELIEVE SHE WOULD LOVE HIM !!!" Here is when he first suspects her of lying.



This is before time skip memories. If she wanted to go after Sasuke herself then she shouldn't have made a ******** team to go with her. Trying to put them out with a sleep bomb was even more stupid. What would have happened when they finally woke up? Guess she didn't think of that did she?

I'm not saying it was SMART, I'm just saying that she did it for HIM, because she was thinking of HIM and HIS feelings. She knew she couldn't FIND Sasuke by herself, but she didn't want to make Lee and Kiba and Sai fight Sasuke with her.

And Main characters are not always right in Shounen. Dont be silly.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

People always give Sakura s**t for "Relying" on other people too much, and now she tries to do something alone and she STILL gets s**t for it.

Who the hell says that?

Um like....95% of Sakura bashers on the internet

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[Ren The Ryoko]

-Points to Hinata fighting Pain- How much thought do you think Hinata put into THAT move?

Hinata knew she might have died but loved Naruto more then her own life - witch is what you're going to say was HUR DURR SELFISH AND STUPID HUR and completely try to bastardize her character like you always do. What the hell is Sakura's reasons for her actions other then doing what the village wants her to do and trying to give Sasuke a mercy killing because she still loves him? "OMG because she loves Naruto too!!!!" lol please... stare

Wait, wait, wait: So Hinata doing something stupid is ok if she does it "For love", but if Sakura does something stupid, and is motivated by love, it's because he's stupid and selfish and rash?
Double standard much?

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Who cares if she liked him forever? Naruto's like Sakura forever. That's not a valid reason. You shouldn't date someone just because THEY like YOU. That's asking for trouble.

This is true but she was the only girl who saw Naruto for Naruto and not just he kubi child as children. And please none of your stupid "taking comfort in his pain" crap and bastardizing Hinata's character AGAIN!.

Hinata didn't see Naruto as the Kyuubi child because she had no idea about Kyuubi. She had no idea about him at all.
And SHE DID get comfort and solace in Naruto's pain. She saw that he suffered and still pressed on and that made HER feel better about HER pain and inspired HER to press on. I dont see why you can't seem to grasp this very simple, and obvious, aspect of their interaction.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

And may I once again point to Hinata almost getting herself KILLED when s**t went bad? How it that mature or level headed in anyway?

Its mature because she was thinking about Naruto's life above her own. She loved him selflessly. Being selfless is part of maturing. Sakura going after Sasuke because she loves him too much to see him plunge into complete evil, is also selfless, but not telling Naruto the truth and trying to put the team SHE created to sleep, was a ******** retarded thing to do.

Because she didn't want to put her team in danger and knew they wouldn't let her go alone?
Because she selflessly tried to take on Sasuke by herself without endangering other people?

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[Ren The Ryoko]

We have no evidence that Naruto forgets things that happen BEFORE his transformation (Only things that happen DURING it)

There is no evidence that saying that he can't forget right before a transformation either. And we won't really know until Naruto and Hinata meet again. What we do have evidence of, is that Naruto is a caring person and would NEVER leave someone who has confessed their love to him hanging nor would he just ignore it like you hope he has done.

Also I'm reporting you for the forth time for not letting other people have their opinions. AGAIN!

There's no evidence he CAN'T forget what happened? Shifting the burden of proof? How pathetic.
I dont HOPE he's done it. He HAS done it. I want him to remember it and flat out reject her as much as the next kid, but from the look of things, Kishimoto just didnt think that was important enough.

Go ahead and ******** report me. God dammit. It's YOU who can't seem to deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with your stupid a** Sakura bashing bull s**t.

[Akarui Kirameki]

NaruHina

[RanmaxHikaru]

[Ren The Ryoko]

Yeah, but to be fair, Neji seems to notice her more. Just sayin.

And Shikamaru notice Choji too... that doesn't mean anything.

[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm not saying it was SMART,

Good because more then half of the actions she has taken up to now have been completely irrational and not well thought out.

[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm just saying that she did it for HIM, because she was thinking of HIM and HIS feelings.

You don't lie about being in love with someone when you're think about their feelings. Now Naruto's probably more confused then ever.

[Ren The Ryoko]

She knew she couldn't FIND Sasuke by herself, but she didn't want to make Lee and Kiba and Sai fight Sasuke with her.

Then the only person she really needed was Kiba for tracking. Why involve Sai and Lee?

[Ren The Ryoko]

Wait, wait, wait: So Hinata doing something stupid is ok if she does it "For love", but if Sakura does something stupid, and is motivated by love, it's because he's stupid and selfish and rash?
Double standard much?

No I consider what Sakura is trying to do for Sasuke very selfless on her part. What she said to Naruto and what she just tried to do to her own team was selfish and rash.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Hinata didn't see Naruto as the Kyuubi child because she had no idea about Kyuubi. She had no idea about him at all.

*Sigh* missing the point again. She actually noticed him as a person and a human being before any of the other kids did.

[Ren The Ryoko]

And SHE DID get comfort and solace in Naruto's pain. She saw that he suffered and still pressed on and that made HER feel better about HER pain and inspired HER to press on. I dont see why you can't seem to grasp this very simple, and obvious, aspect of their interaction.

I can't see why YOU can't grasp that she DIDN'T find comfort in Naruto's pain because she ALWAYS felt badly for him. Hinata was inspired by that fact that he overcame his pain. Taking comfort in his suffering is akin to saying that she felt relief or even joy in his pain. Maybe you should try and grasp this very simple, and obvious, aspect of their interaction.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Because she didn't want to put her team in danger and knew they wouldn't let her go alone?

Then she shouldn't have brought them along and she could have tried to track Sasuke on her own. She might be retarded but she's not helpless.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Shifting the burden of proof? How pathetic.

Oh you mean like saying that there is no evidence that Sakura was lying about the love confession to Naruto. ******** hypocrite.

[Ren The Ryoko]

I dont HOPE he's done it. He HAS done it.

Only a butthurt Sakura fan would make Naruto out to be an a*****e that intentionally ignored Hinata's confession just to make NaruSaku look more canon. It's not in his character to act that way Ren. ******** deal with it.

[Ren The Ryoko]

But from the look of things, Kishimoto just didnt think that was important enough.

So now you are speaking for Kishimoto himself? You fail hard talk2hand

[Ren The Ryoko]

Go ahead and ******** report me. God dammit. It's YOU who can't seem to deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with your stupid a** Sakura bashing bull s**t.

Bawwwww cry much. Seriously, you go to every thread bitching about NaruSaku and have admitted to harassing NaruHina fans but you can't take it when people wont allow themselves to be beat down by your stupid Hinata bashing bullshit. Also, If you haven't noticed, you are the only NaruSauk fan I ever ague with because I actually allow people to have their opinions as long as they don't twist s**t around and try to force others that they are right LIKE YOU DO!

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

RanmaxHikaru

[Ren The Ryoko]

Yeah, but to be fair, Neji seems to notice her more. Just sayin.

And Shikamaru notice Choji too... that doesn't mean anything.

Canonly? Yes. You are right. NejiHina probably (95% chance) NOT go canon.
But the fact still stands that Neji notices Hinata more than Naruto does, which is kind of sad for NaruHina.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm not saying it was SMART,

Good because more then half of actions she has taken up to now have been completely irrational and not well thought out.

Ok? She's running on emotion now. She's seen that her life and Naruto's life will never be normal unless Sasuke is stopped. She can't let Sasuke self-destruct anymore and take Naruto down with him.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm just saying that she did it for HIM, because she was thinking of HIM and HIS feelings.

You don't lie about being in love with someone when you're think about their feelings. Now Naruto's probably more confused then ever.

Say it louder Sai.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

She knew she couldn't FIND Sasuke by herself, but she didn't want to make Lee and Kiba and Sai fight Sasuke with her.

Then the only person she really needed was Kiba for tracking. Why involve Sai and Lee?

Because just asking one person would be too fishy?

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Wait, wait, wait: So Hinata doing something stupid is ok if she does it "For love", but if Sakura does something stupid, and is motivated by love, it's because he's stupid and selfish and rash?
Double standard much?

No I consider what Sakura is trying to do for Sasuke very selfless on her part. What she said to Naruto and what she just tried to do to her own team was selfish and rash.

Not...really. She obviously doesn't want them to have to fight Sasuke and possibly die because of her.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Hinata didn't see Naruto as the Kyuubi child because she had no idea about Kyuubi. She had no idea about him at all.

*Sigh* missing the point again. She actually noticed him as a person and a human being before any of the other kids did.

And then she sat there and did nothing. So what? Why is it even a race?

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[Ren The Ryoko]

And SHE DID get comfort and solace in Naruto's pain. She saw that he suffered and still pressed on and that made HER feel better about HER pain and inspired HER to press on. I dont see why you can't seem to grasp this very simple, and obvious, aspect of their interaction.

I can't see why YOU can't grasp that she DIDN'T find comfort in Naruto's pain because she ALWAYS felt badly for him. Hinata was inspired by that fact that he overcome his pain. Taking comfort is akin to saying that she felt some kind of relief or joy in his pain. Maybe you should try and grasp this very simple, and obvious, aspect of their interaction.

You seem to take a weird knee jerk flip out reaction over the word comfort. I'm sure I've gone through this before, but I'll try again. Though at this point you seem SO dedicated to ME BEING WRONG and YOU BEING RIGHT it probably wont matter.
His pain and his persistence inspired her yes? Made her feel less crappy about her own life yes? Made her feel as though she could go on, yes?
Yes.
She found comfort in the fact that Naruto was suffering and wouldn't give up.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's just kind of selfish.
Hinata saw Naruto's pain, she knew his pain, she related HIS pain with HER pain and then took solace and inspiration in the fact that HE could overcome HIS pain and it gave her HOPE that SHE could then overcome HER pain.
And surely Hinata must have thought to herself "You know, if someone was nice to me, I'd feel better" and because she related HER pain to HIS pain she must have known that being nice to Naruto would make HIM feel better, but she still didn't have any contact with him at all.
It's not TERRIBLE, it's just a form of selfishness.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

And may I once again point to Hinata almost getting herself KILLED when s**t went bad? How it that mature or level headed in anyway?

Its mature because she was thinking about Naruto's life above her own. She loved him selflessly. Being selfless is part of maturing. Sakura going after Sasuke because she loves him too much to see him plunge into complete evil, is also selfless, but not telling Naruto the truth and trying to put the team SHE created to sleep, was a ******** retarded thing to do.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Because she didn't want to put her team in danger and knew they wouldn't let her go alone?

Then she shouldn't have brought them along and she could have tried to track Sasuke on her own. She might be retarded but she's not helpless.

But she had to get to Sasuke fast and she knew Kiba was a better tracker than she is. She knew her own limitations.
And I REALLY REALLY REALLY dont like people using "Retarded" as an insult. It's immature and it diminishes the suffering of people in this country who do have mental disabilities.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Shifting the burden of proof? How pathetic.

Oh you mean like saying that there is no evidence that Sakura was lying about the love confession to Naruto. You're the pathetic one here and a hypocrite to boot.

I've pointed out my reasoning for that though. The only person to doubt her confession was Naruto, and Sakura told him flat out that she was telling the truth. No one else has challenged that statement. My only point is that right now it's a gray area.
But we have no reason to think that Naruto forgets things that happen BEFORE he transforms.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

I dont HOPE he's done it. He HAS done it.

Only a butthurt Sakura fan would make Naruto out to be an a*****e that intentionally ignored Hinata's confession just to make NaruSaku look more canon. It's not in his character do act that way Ren. ******** deal with it.

It's more like Kishimoto just didn't think it was important.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

But from the look of things, Kishimoto just didnt think that was important enough.

So now you are speaking for Kishimoto himself? You fail hard talk2hand

FROM THE LOOK OF THINGS.
Dont be so childish.
I'm merely pointing out that it appears as though Kishimoto didn't think it was vital to the plot because he hasn't written it.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Go ahead and ******** report me. God dammit. It's YOU who can't seem to deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with your stupid a** Sakura bashing bull s**t.

Bawwwww cry much. Seriously, you go to every thread bitching about NaruSaku and have admitted to harassing NaruHina fans but you can't take it when people wont allow themselves to be beat down by your stupid Hinata bashing bullshit. Also, If you haven't noticed, you are the only NaruSauk fan I ever ague with because I actually allow people to have their opinions as long as they don't twist s**t around and try to force others that they are right LIKE YOU DO!

You're a bit of an idiot.
I do not hate Hinata. I'll say it again.
I DO NOT hate Hinata.
I LIKE Hinata.

People are allowed to have their opinions. But when those opinions are stupid, insulting, intellectually dishonest or are simply unsupported by the canon or in fact directly challenged by them THEN I will attempt to have a dialect, a discussion, a conversation about them.

You appear to be completely unable to accurately understand my positions or articulate your own in any way that doesn't make you sound out of your mind, and when ever I challenge something ridiculous that you've said you're knee jerk response is to go running to the mods.

[RanmaxHikaru]

You really are a rabid Sakura fangirl who just doesn't know when to put a sock in it. You say you like Hinata but then call her a selfish b***h and belittle every selfless act she's ever tried to do for Naruto as being stupid. You say you like her but don't really mind seeing her completely unhappy if she were actually forced to marry Neji (who she doesn't like)

The only reason Neji even notices Hinata is because they live in the same house and are related. If not for that I they would have nothing else. Thinking that they have ANY chance of begin canon is beyond stupid because they don't even have a one sided love, let alone any at all. You twist around truths and demonize characters to prove NaruSaku in any way you can. At least I don't pretend to like a character that I could care less about.

About Sakura's confession - Naruto was not the only person who didn't seem to believe her. Everyone else looked surprised and discussed while they watch her hugged him. You can say whatever you want but that's the emotion I see every time I look at that page. "Sakura swore up and down that she was telling the truth." So what. It looked like the only reason she started yelling at him was because he caught her in her lie. Naruto doubted her almost from the very beginning of her confession and even more so after she mentioned the promise. This is how I saw the events. Stop acting as if your opinions are more factual in my own.

Sai said Sakura was thinking about Naruto's feelings because he knew that she meant well by it. But honestly, that's not an excuse. I don't care if Sakura MEANT well.The fact is that she LIED. She lied to Naruto about being in love with him and didn't bother to tell him that Sasuke, the person he has been trying to save for years, now has to be killed. If she had thought it though more, perhaps she would have realized that it was a shitty thing to do. The rode to hell is often paved with good intentions. I also don't find making a team and then planing to knock them out with sleeping gass, "thinking of others" either. If she wanted to do it alone then that's what she should have done. Like I already said, Sakura is not helpless and she's more then capable of finding Sasuke on her own. Using Kiba may have been faster but she could have saved him the trouble by doing it on her own. Now while she's busy fighting with Sai in the forest, Sasuke could be on his way to Konoha. But this is my perception of the events and I could give a crap whether you think they are right or not.

Now about Hinata. I really don't care how many times you regurgitate the same crap about her taking comfort in his pain. I don't ******** agree with you. The only reason you seem to think she was selfish is because she didn't walk over to him and say anything. First of all, Hinata was probably scared to say anything, not knowing much about Naruto or how he would react to her. She was always timid and shy of people she didn't know (especially when she was ten years old) Second, Naruto was known as an outcast by all the adults in the village. If she had talked to him or consorted with him in any way, who knows what kind of punishment she would have received from her father, had he ever found out. And third, Hinata had no confidence to talk to anyone let alone the outcast Naruto. The fact that she hides all the time and has no friends tells you that much. Again this is my opinion and if you don't like it too bad.

"Though at this point you seem SO dedicated to ME BEING WRONG and YOU BEING RIGHT it probably wont matter. "

Pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you should shut up and look are yourself before having the nerve to complain about others. I didn't start this argument with you. I merrily stated my opinion on the mater and it was you who had a problem with it. As a matter of fact, I have never started ANY of the arguments between us. I have always done nothing but make a single post stating how I feel, then you always come along and tear it apart because you find it wrong. And seeing as how I don't argue with any other NaruSaku fans, it's obviously YOU who is starting the problems Ren. You do this on every NaruHina thread and I'm not the only person that's had it with you.

"People are allowed to have their opinions. But when those opinions are stupid, insulting, intellectually dishonest or are simply unsupported by the canon or in fact directly challenged by them THEN I will attempt to have a dialect, a discussion, a conversation about them. "

And who the ******** are you to tell others how they should perceive the canon? How dear you presume to be the correcter of everyone else? You talk about people being dishonest and insulting about canon facts when you go around twisting the canon of other characters to sute your NaruSaku agenda. You're a ******** HYPOCRITE Ren. You need to shut up and take your own advice for once.

"You appear to be completely unable to accurately understand my positions."
Oh I understand I just don't agree." Learn the difference.

"or articulate your own in any way that doesn't make you sound out of your mind."
Hypocritical again much.

"and when ever I challenge something ridiculous that you've said you're knee jerk response is to go running to the mods."

Then I guess most NaruHina fans are ridicules since you find it fit to b***h and harass a good deal of them (or most of them). I'm also not the only one who has reported you numerous times for being a ******** troll. Since you're not mature enough to let people have their own opinions (like you pretend you are), I have no choice but to tell a mod. And you seriously call this "challenging an opinion"? No, you're trying to bully people into thinking your way is the right way and this is is an ongoing problem with you. YOU are the common denominator Ren.

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

RanmaxHikaru

You really are a rabid Sakura fangirl who just doesn't know when to put a sock in it. You say you like Hinata but then call her a selfish b***h and belittle every selfless act she's ever tried to do for Naruto as being stupid. You say you like her but don't really mind seeing her completely unhappy if she were actually forced to marry Neji (who she doesn't like)

I'm confused as to how you and I can talk as often as we do, and yet you have absolutely no understanding of what I'm saying. I DO like Hinata, I DO think she was selfish as a child, and I dont belittle everything she did (which was one thing) as stupid (which is kind of was).

Look, I dont think Hinata nees to be with Naruto to be happy. I reject the idea that Hinata has done what she's done and accomplished all that she has to win some boy's love. Her feelings for Naruto were an inspiration, a means to an end, but to be with NAruto was not her goal. She wanted to improve herself. That was it. And she has.

I dont think Hinata will spend the rest of her life blushing and stuttering and falling over herself over her love for Naruto. She's grown since we first met her and I hope that she will CONTINUE to grow.

There's no shame in moving on, in finding someone else.

The appeal of NejiHina is seeing this growth. Neji and Hinata and both shown an ability to see into the other's personality. Neji has shown a large degree of understanding, sympathy, concern and support for Hinata. It indicates the potential for a very HEALTHY relationship where both parties are heard and understood.

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The only reason Neji even notices Hinata is because they live in the same house and are related. If not for that I they would have nothing else. Thinking that they have ANY chance of begin canon is beyond stupid because they don't even have a one sided love, let alone any at all. You twist around truths and demonize characters to prove NaruSaku in any way you can. At least I don't pretend to like a character that I could care less about.

And ye know, the fact that he was born to protect her.
I've never said NejiHina will become canon. I've said many, many times that I accept NejiHina will not be canon.
I dont demonize characters, and my NejiHina fandom has nothing to do with NaruSaku. I like it on it's own merits.

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About Sakura's confession - Naruto was not the only person who didn't seem to believe her. Everyone else looked surprised and discussed while they watch her hugged him. You can say whatever you want but that's the emotion I see every time I look at that page. "Sakura swore up and down that she was telling the truth." So what. It looked like the only reason she started yelling at him was because he caught her in her lie. Naruto doubted her almost from the very beginning of her confession and even more so after she mentioned the promise. This is how I saw the events. Stop acting as if your opinions are more factual in my own.

I'm just telling you where I'm drawing my conclusions from. I think it's important to remember that all of the development from Sakura about Naruto has been internal. Even she says that she's the only one who knows how she feels, and I simply think it's too soon to make any definitive statements about the romantic state of her feelings for Naruto.

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Sai said Sakura was thinking about Naruto's feelings because he knew that she meant well by it. But honestly, that's not an excuse. I don't care if Sakura MEANT well.The fact is that she LIED. She lied to Naruto about being in love with him and didn't bother to tell him that Sasuke, the person he has been trying to save for years, now has to be killed. If she had thought it though more, perhaps she would have realized that it was a shitty thing to do. The rode to hell is often paved with good intentions. I also don't find making a team and then planing to knock them out with sleeping gass, "thinking of others" either. If she wanted to do it alone then that's what she should have done. Like I already said, Sakura is not helpless and she's more then capable of finding Sasuke on her own. Using Kiba may have been faster but she could have saved him the trouble by doing it on her own. Now while she's busy fighting with Sai in the forest, Sasuke could be on his way to Konoha. But this is my perception of the events and I could give a crap whether you think they are right or not.

Her actions haven't been well thought out, and I agree that there are better ways for her to have accomplished what she's trying to do.
But she has meant well, and it's easy to see that she's trying her hardest to help everyone and hurt as few people as possible. I dont think it's fair to demonize her for that.

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Now about Hinata. I really don't care how many times you regurgitate the same crap about her taking comfort in his pain. I don't ******** agree with you. The only reason you seem to think she was selfish is because she didn't walk over to him and say anything. First of all, Hinata was probably scared to say anything, not knowing much about Naruto or how he would react to her. She was always timid and shy of people she didn't know (especially when she was ten years old) Second, Naruto was known as an outcast by all the adults in the village. If she had talked to him or consorted with him in any way, who knows what kind of punishment she would have received from her father, had he ever found out. And third, Hinata had no confidence to talk to anyone let alone the outcast Naruto. The fact that she hides all the time and has no friends tells you that much. Again this is my opinion and if you don't like it too bad.

I'm well aware that Hinata was a shy kid.
My point is that it was a very self-centered thing that she did with Naruto. She took inspiration from him, and never gave him anything in return.
It's not HORRIBLE, but I dont think it can be used as a point in NaruHina's favor.

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"Though at this point you seem SO dedicated to ME BEING WRONG and YOU BEING RIGHT it probably wont matter. "

Pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you should shut up and look are yourself before having the nerve to complain about others. I didn't start this argument with you. I merrily stated my opinion on the mater and it was you who had a problem with it. As a matter of fact, I have never started ANY of the arguments between us. I have always done nothing but make a single post stating how I feel, then you always come along and tear it apart because you find it wrong. And seeing as how I don't argue with any other NaruSaku fans, it's obviously YOU who is starting the problems Ren. You do this on every NaruHina thread and I'm not the only person that's had it with you.

Ranma, that's not even true. You've started discussions with me before. In fact you've quoted OTHER people and complained about me to them before.
Yes, you stated an opinion. And It was full of thoughtless Sakura bashing and I felt it should be addressed. But you seem to continue to fall back on these same few arguments, and no matter how many times I debunk them, you go back to them again and again. "You hate Hinata" seems to be your favorite. I don't hate Hinata.

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"People are allowed to have their opinions. But when those opinions are stupid, insulting, intellectually dishonest or are simply unsupported by the canon or in fact directly challenged by them THEN I will attempt to have a dialect, a discussion, a conversation about them. "

And who the ******** are you to tell others how they should perceive the canon? How dear you presume to be the correcter of everyone else? You talk about people being dishonest and insulting about canon facts when you go around twisting the canon of other characters to sute your NaruSaku agenda. You're a ******** HYPOCRITE Ren. You need to shut up and take your own advice for once.

You need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with having a discussion, Ranma. If other people believe that their points ARE supported by canon, then we can share evidence, compare notes and talk about it.

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"You appear to be completely unable to accurately understand my positions."
Oh I understand I just don't agree." Learn the difference.

Obviously not. You STILL seem to think I hate Hinata.

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"or articulate your own in any way that doesn't make you sound out of your mind."
Hypocritical again much.

This is not a rebuttal. This is a "So are you but what am I".

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"and when ever I challenge something ridiculous that you've said you're knee jerk response is to go running to the mods."

Then I guess most NaruHina fans are ridicules since you find it fit to b***h and harass a good deal of them (or most of them). I'm also not the only one who has reported you numerous times for being a ******** troll. Since you're not mature enough to let people have their own opinions (like you pretend you are), I have no choice but to tell a mod. And you seriously call this "challenging an opinion"? No, you're trying to bully people into thinking your way is the right way and this is is an ongoing problem with you. YOU are the common denominator Ren.

No, Ranma, I'm not. You'll notice that no matter how often you report me that I'm not temp banned, my posts are not blocked or deleted. Because I'm not trolling. I'm just talking to people, holding discussions.
I dont want to bully people, I want to talk to people. I want an open and honest and calm exchange of opinions supported by facts and canon.

You seem unable to accept this. You seem highly offended that someone disagrees with you and has the nerve to openly challenge your view on things.
Perhaps you should address why being challenged on the internet offends you so much.

[RanmaxHikaru]

[Ren The Ryoko]

"I'm confused as to how you and I can talk as often as we do, and yet you have absolutely no understanding of what I'm saying. I DO like Hinata, I DO think she was selfish as a child, and I dont belittle everything she did (which was one thing) as stupid (which is kind of was)."

This is what I'm talking about. It seems that only her iterations with Naruto are selfish and stupid but her iterations with everyone else is great. THAT is the problem I see.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Look, I dont think Hinata nees to be with Naruto to be happy. I reject the idea that Hinata has done what she's done and accomplished all that she has to win some boy's love. Her feelings for Naruto were an inspiration, a means to an end, but to be with NAruto was not her goal. She wanted to improve herself. That was it. And she has." I dont think Hinata will spend the rest of her life blushing and stuttering and falling over herself over her love for Naruto. She's grown since we first met her and I hope that she will CONTINUE to grow.

Is this why you think I like NaruHina? Because it's the only way for her to be happy? Because she only changed herself to be with him? Where in the hell did you conger this up? I never insinuated anything of the sort. I think they belong together for much deeper reason then that shallow crap.

[Ren The Ryoko]

The appeal of NejiHina is seeing this growth. Neji and Hinata and both shown an ability to see into the others personality. Neji has shown a large degree of understanding, sympathy, concern and support for Hinata. It indicates the potential for a very HEALTHY relationship where both parties are heard and understood.

I see nothing healthy about a relationship between the two, especially since Neji reminds me too much of Hinata's father (who I can't stand). I don't particularly like his attitude much either. Even though it's much better then it was at the exams, he still seems to have a really rude arrogant streak. Something that I don't think Hinata would care for at all.

[Ren The Ryoko]

And ye know, the fact that he was born to protect her.
I've never said NejiHina will become canon. I've said many, many times that I accept NejiHina will not be canon. I dont demonize characters, and my NejiHina fandom has nothing to do with NaruSaku. I like it on it's own merits.

But you often write both parings in the same sentence, witch leads me to believe that you just want to pare her with someone just to get her out Sakura's way in getting Naruto.

[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm just telling you where I'm drawing my conclusions from.

And so am I

[Ren The Ryoko]

I think it's important to remember that all of the development from Sakura about Naruto has been internal.

And every time she has come to some sort of revelation about him you can see it in her thought bubble.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Even she says that she's the only one who knows how she feels, and I simply think it's too soon to make any definitive statements about the romantic state of her feelings for Naruto.

I was never making any romantic statements about either girl. I was simply saying that I agree with Naruto that she IS lying and that she's has been showing sings of immaturity, similar to when she was an obnoxious bitchy 12 year old.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Her actions haven't been well thought out, and I agree that there are better ways for her to have accomplished what she's trying to do. But she has meant well, and it's easy to see that she's trying her hardest to help everyone and hurt as few people as possible. I dont think it's fair to demonize her for that.

I think it's VERY fair because I know Sakura has been capable of thinking things through in the past (even when things were bad). Now she suddenly reverts back to being an idiot who keeps making one mistake after another. She's even threatening to beat up Sai, who is only trying to help her. She needs to ******** stop and think about what she's doing.

[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm well aware that Hinata was a shy kid.
My point is that it was a very self-centered thing that she did with Naruto. She took inspiration from him, and never gave him anything in return.
It's not HORRIBLE, but I dont think it can be used as a point in NaruHina's favor.

And my point is that she couldn't because giving someone inspiration takes a cretin level of confidence. Something that Hinata NEVER had. I think the only reason Naruto had any confidence at all, was because if Eruka. Too bad Hinata didn't have an adult like that in her life.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Ranma, that's not even true. You've started discussions with me before.

Actually no. Look at any of the NaruHina threads and you'll see that I stated an opinion and you commented on it. That's how the arguments always starts.

[Ren The Ryoko]

In fact you've quoted OTHER people and complained about me to them before.

Yes when it was apperent that you didn't know when to draw the line and just end the topic in a mature fassion.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Yes, you stated an opinion. And It was full of thoughtless Sakura bashing "and I felt it should be addressed.

Again your opinion. Not fact.

[Ren The Ryoko]

But you seem to continue to fall back on these same few arguments, and no matter how many times I debunk"

You can't debunk something that is a mater of perception and opinion, witch is what I just explained. This is where you have a problem. If someone has an opinion you try to tell them they are wrong. That's NOT an open discussion.

[Ren The Ryoko]

You need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with having a discussion, Ranma. If other people believe that their points ARE supported by canon, then we can share evidence, compare notes and talk about it.

Since when have you ever wanted to compare notes? All you seem to do is try to convert everyone into NaruSaku fans by squashing their hopes of NaruHina as much as possible and antagonizing them on how bad she is for Naruto.

[Ren The Ryoko]

Obviously not. You STILL seem to think I hate Hinata.

Because the only time you praise her is when she's not with Naruto. It makes what you say look fake.

[Ren The Ryoko]

This is not a rebuttal. This is a "So are you but what am I".

To be really honest, this statement was just too stupid to even bother with a proper rebuttal. "You think I'm "out of my mind," so what that's your opinion. I just think you should look at how you dictate yourself before commenting on others. Much of what you write can be easily construed as irrational.

[Ren The Ryoko]

No, Ranma, I'm not. You'll notice that no matter how often you report me that I'm not temp banned, my posts are not blocked or deleted. Because I'm not trolling. I'm just talking to people, holding discussions.

Because mods only seems to consider outright name calling the only form of trolling they care about, when there are so many others. Not to mention that there are over a million people on Gaia and I'm sure I'm not the only one reporting someone on here. Who knows if they will ever get to it at all.

[Ren The Ryoko]

I don't want to bully people, I want to talk to people. I want an open and honest and calm exchange of opinions supported by facts and canon.

Then you should actually do that instead of trying to to say My opinion > Your opinion.

[Ren The Ryoko]

You seem unable to accept this. You seem highly offended that someone disagrees with you and has the nerve to openly challenge your view on things.

No, I'm offended that you keep talking as if opinions are fact that you can "debunk" people with, and mine are just rantings of a NaruHina fangirl. You aren't challenging, you're just being disrespectful to anyone who has a different opinion then you.

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

RanmaxHikaru

[Ren The Ryoko]

"I'm confused as to how you and I can talk as often as we do, and yet you have absolutely no understanding of what I'm saying. I DO like Hinata, I DO think she was selfish as a child, and I dont belittle everything she did (which was one thing) as stupid (which is kind of was)."

This is what I'm talking about. It seems that only her iterations with Naruto are selfish and stupid but her iterations with everyone else is great. THAT is the problem I see.

I'm really not sure what you mean by that. We dont see Hinata really interact with anyone but Naruto, except for occasionally Neji. As Hinata aged her interactions with Naruto do become less selfish. She does attempt to help him and be his friend. It's simply that when they were very young, when so many people claim that she was the first to see him as a person and that this somehow wins NaruHina points, that she was being selfish in a totally understandable way.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Look, I dont think Hinata nees to be with Naruto to be happy. I reject the idea that Hinata has done what she's done and accomplished all that she has to win some boy's love. Her feelings for Naruto were an inspiration, a means to an end, but to be with NAruto was not her goal. She wanted to improve herself. That was it. And she has." I dont think Hinata will spend the rest of her life blushing and stuttering and falling over herself over her love for Naruto. She's grown since we first met her and I hope that she will CONTINUE to grow.

Is this why you think I like NaruHina? Because it's the only way for her to be happy? Because she only changed herself to be with him? Where in the hell did you conger this up? I never insinuated anything of the sort. I think they belong together for much deeper reason then that shallow crap.

I was simply explaining why I think it's possible for Hinata to move on from Naruto. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth at all.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

The appeal of NejiHina is seeing this growth. Neji and Hinata and both shown an ability to see into the others personality. Neji has shown a large degree of understanding, sympathy, concern and support for Hinata. It indicates the potential for a very HEALTHY relationship where both parties are heard and understood.

I see nothing healthy about a relationship between the two, especially since Neji reminds me too much of Hinata's father (who I can't stand). I don't particularly like his attitude much either. Even though it's much better then it was at the exams, he still seems to have a really rude arrogant streak. Something that I don't think Hinata would care for at all.

As I said, the healthy aspect comes from their communication. Neji has demonstrated a deep understanding of Hinata, a willingness to listen, and a level of support we dont see from anyone else. He was born to protect her. Given that Hinata has also shown an ability to understand hidden aspects of Neji's psyche, they seem to be able to understand each other very well. This demonstration of understanding indicates the possibility of a healthy communication in a relationship.

I dont think we've seen much of Neji's arrogance at all since the exams ESPECIALLY around Hinata. When he's around hinata he seems much....calmer, much more supportive and mellow. It's around Lee and his other peers that he continues to be very...confident.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

And ye know, the fact that he was born to protect her.
I've never said NejiHina will become canon. I've said many, many times that I accept NejiHina will not be canon. I dont demonize characters, and my NejiHina fandom has nothing to do with NaruSaku. I like it on it's own merits.

But you often write both parings in the same sentence, witch leads me to believe that you just want to pare her with someone just to get her out Sakura's way in getting Naruto.

And you're wrong. I dont.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm just telling you where I'm drawing my conclusions from.

And so am I

Which is both fair and healthy for a discussion.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

I think it's important to remember that all of the development from Sakura about Naruto has been internal.

And every time she has come to some sort of revelation about him you can see it in her thought bubble.

Yes. Which other characters DONT see. So it's only natural that other people, including Naruto, are confused by this confession. No one else has seen the subtle changes, the revelations, the internal dynamic with her feelings for Naruto. So I dont think it's fair to call BS on her just because other people were shocked.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Even she says that she's the only one who knows how she feels, and I simply think it's too soon to make any definitive statements about the romantic state of her feelings for Naruto.

I was never making any romantic statements about either girl. I was simply saying that I agree with Naruto that she IS lying and that she's has been showing sings of immaturity, similar to when she was an obnoxious bitchy 12 year old.

And by agreeing that she was lying, you are making a statement about how you think Sakura feels romantically. And I'm pointing out that there's simply too much gray area right now to say anything for sure.

Quote:

[Ren The Ryoko]

Her actions haven't been well thought out, and I agree that there are better ways for her to have accomplished what she's trying to do. But she has meant well, and it's easy to see that she's trying her hardest to help everyone and hurt as few people as possible. I dont think it's fair to demonize her for that.

I think it's VERY fair because I know Sakura has been capable of thinking things through in the past (even when things were bad). Now she suddenly reverts back to being an idiot who keeps making one mistake after another. She's even threatening to beat up Sai, who is only trying to help her. She needs to ******** stop and think about what she's doing.

Because she doesn't want to drag Sai into her mess. She doesn't want to drag anyone into her mess. She wants to handle this by herself so no one else gets hurt.
IT seems like in so many ways, Sakura is blaming herself for all of this happening. SHE couldn't stop Sasuke from leaving Kohona. And now she's going to go fix that.
It's not the most effective or logical choice of actions, but it is rather noble.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

I'm well aware that Hinata was a shy kid.
My point is that it was a very self-centered thing that she did with Naruto. She took inspiration from him, and never gave him anything in return.
It's not HORRIBLE, but I dont think it can be used as a point in NaruHina's favor.

And my point is that she couldn't because giving someone inspiration takes a cretin level of confidence. Something that Hinata NEVER had. I think the only reason Naruto had any confidence at all, was because if Eruka. Too bad Hinata didn't have an adult like that in her life.

We really have no evidence that Naruto even knew Iruka until he was at least 11 or 12.
Look, Hinata related to Naruto's pain. Surely she must had known that if someone was kind to her, she would feel better and surely she was able to make the cognitive leap that if someone was nice to Naruto HE would feel better. But she really wasn't that worried about how Naruto felt. She didn't lament that he was in pain. Instead she saw that he never gave up and was in awe of him. She aspired to be like him, not to help him. She saw the success story, not a boy in pain.
It's not a horrible thing, it's just how it went. She didn't help Naruto because she didn't really think he NEEDED help. He was succeeding, he wasn't giving up. It was something she WANTED to do. She wanted to be like him.
And so she didn't help him, didn't smile at him, wasn't kind to him.
It's not horrible, it's just a little selfish and self centered. But that's ok.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Ranma, that's not even true. You've started discussions with me before.

Actually no. Look at any of the NaruHina threads and you'll see that I stated an opinion and you commented on it. That's how the arguments always starts.

Or I commented on someone elses opinion and you start bitching about how terrible I am.
And why does it matter?

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[Ren The Ryoko]

In fact you've quoted OTHER people and complained about me to them before.

Yes when it was apperent that you didn't know when to draw the line and just end the topic in a mature fassion.

I call bull s**t on that. There's nothing wrong with having a discussion in a discussion thread.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Yes, you stated an opinion. And It was full of thoughtless Sakura bashing "and I felt it should be addressed.

Again your opinion. Not fact.

Are you saying your post DIDN'T Sakura bash?
But yeah, sure, it was my opinion, and your opinion and then, in a discussion thread, if our opinions differed and we felt so inclined we could, like adults, discuss it. Or you could report me for trolling again.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

But you seem to continue to fall back on these same few arguments, and no matter how many times I debunk"

You can't debunk something that is a mater of perception and opinion, witch is what I just explained. This is where you have a problem. If someone has an opinion you try to tell them they are wrong. That's NOT an open discussion.

No. The arguments I'm referring to here is when you try to tell ME what I think and I tell you that you are WRONG. You seem convinced that I hate Hinata, and I only like NejiHina because of NaruSaku and other ridiculous things. Those are wrong. I know. They are my opinions.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

You need to calm down. There's nothing wrong with having a discussion, Ranma. If other people believe that their points ARE supported by canon, then we can share evidence, compare notes and talk about it.

Since when have you ever wanted to compare notes? All you seem to do is try to convert everyone into NaruSaku fans by squashing their hopes of NaruHina as much as possible and antagonizing them on how bad she is for Naruto.

I'm sorry that you seem to have gotten such a negative reaction to my attempts at open discussion. Though it feels as though anyone who dare challenge your opinion with another view is trolling, so I dont know how you would prefer I talk to people instead.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

Obviously not. You STILL seem to think I hate Hinata.

Because the only time you praise her is when she's not with Naruto. It makes what you say look fake.

Uh...that's not true. I'm praised her confession as a crowning moment of personal development and growth, while pointing out that it was a rash and dangerous action many times. I try to be as realistic about things as I can. I dislike NaruHina, and so I disagree with many of the popular praises for Hinata, but that doesn't mean I dislike her.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

This is not a rebuttal. This is a "So are you but what am I".

To be really honest, this statement was just too stupid to even bother with a proper rebuttal. "You think I'm "out of my mind," so what that's your opinion. I just think you should look at how you dictate yourself before commenting on others. Much of what you write can be easily construed as irrational.

I disagree, honestly. Do you have any examples of this?

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[Ren The Ryoko]

No, Ranma, I'm not. You'll notice that no matter how often you report me that I'm not temp banned, my posts are not blocked or deleted. Because I'm not trolling. I'm just talking to people, holding discussions.

Because mods only seems to consider outright name calling the only form of trolling they care about, when there are so many others. Not to mention that there are over a million people on Gaia and I'm sure I'm not the only one reporting someone on here. Who knows if they will ever get to it at all.

So YOU get to decide who is trolling, not the mods? That's convenient.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

I don't want to bully people, I want to talk to people. I want an open and honest and calm exchange of opinions supported by facts and canon.

Then you should actually do that instead of trying to to say My opinion > Your opinion.

That IS what I do Ranma. Sadly since we so often disagree, you seem to take any attempt at me using canon to point out how your arguments are flawed as My opinion > Your opinion.

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[Ren The Ryoko]

You seem unable to accept this. You seem highly offended that someone disagrees with you and has the nerve to openly challenge your view on things.

No, I'm offended that you keep talking as if opinions are fact that you can "debunk" people with, and mine are just rantings of a NaruHina fangirl. You aren't challenging, you're just being disrespectful to anyone who has a different opinion then you.

No, I'm not. You just seem hyper sensitive to anyone disagreeing with YOU.

[Enigmatic Freesia]

Neither... I'm more of a SasuHina type of girl. I find it cuter, even if its chances of appearing in cannon is next to zilch, I still love it. 3nodding

[RanmaxHikaru]

Honestly, Ren I'm not even going to go through everything since you don't seem to understand a word I have written and are still mistaking your perceptions and opinions as factual canon evidence. You're not "debunking" anything because you are fighting over opinions and not canon. You really don't leave any room for a calm open forum because you keep trying to squash how everyone perceive the canon with you're own perceptions. You need to address and re-evaluate the way you approach people because you come off as if you are in the "right" and anyone who disagrees with you isn't. Like I have said before, I'm not the only person who has argued with you, therefor you are the common denominator in all of these fights. Stop and look at how you conducted a discussion. You are not elaborating or adding anything, all you are doing is repeating the same thing and claiming you're using the canon while everyone else isn't. That's called an argument. You also call people out for using the same debit tactics that you have also used (Shifting the burden of proof) Of course you're just going to deny this since you can't seem to see this flaw in your approach. So go ahead, respond and deny everything I have just written because I know that's what's coming.

@ Enigmatic Freesia: That is what fanfiction is for although I have never read any SasuHina ones.

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

RanmaxHikaru

Honestly, Ren I'm not even going to go through everything since you don't seem to understand a word I have written and are still mistaking your perceptions and opinions as factual canon evidence. You're not "debunking" anything because you are fighting over opinions and not canon. You really don't leave any room for a calm open forum because you keep trying to squash how everyone perceive the canon with you're own perceptions. You need to address and re-evaluate the way you approach people because you come off as if you are in the "right" and anyone who disagrees with you isn't. Like I have said before, I'm not the only person who has argued with you, therefor you are the common denominator in all of these fights. Stop and look at how you conducted a discussion. You are not elaborating or adding anything, all you are doing is repeating the same thing and claiming you're using the canon while everyone else isn't. That's called an argument. You also call people out for using the same debit tactics that you have also used (Shifting the burden of proof) Of course you're just going to deny this since you can't seem to see this flaw in your approach. So go ahead, respond and deny everything I have just written because I know that's what's coming.

@ Enigmatic Freesia: That is what fanfiction is for although I have never read any SasuHina ones.

You obviously wont listen to anything I say and you're unable to even admit that you completely bastardize my opinions while trying to make me look back. So what's the point?
Enjoy feeling superior, Ranma.

[Mika_chann]

What about shikaHina? Crack pairings are always better.

[Sachiko94]

NaruHina all the way, but I'd pick KibaHina over SasuHina any day.