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Umesono
Or, call me crazy, anime is part of the larger story-telling aspect of human culture?

You seem to have made some huge generalizations about anime that just aren't valid across all animes.

Also how is you argument specific to anime? It sounds like it could apply to just about any entertainment medium like books or hollywood. Becoming interested or even emotionally invested into a story, regardless of the medium, can be an opportunity for escapism. And what's so wrong with that? That's just part of the human condition. It allows us a moment of relief from the emotions we have about our own lives or even more importantly I think allows us to experience the creative imagination of someone else, possibly breeding new creativity within us.

You completely sound like one of those people who have just come back from some sort of lecture about how terrible society is and is misguidedly imposing that onto one aspect of our entertainment culture. Here's the reality champ, most things in our culture is commodified. But that doesn't mean that at an individual at the micro level, can't find something true and meaningful to them in it.

Here's a tip from me to you, stay in school and don't think you explain complicated, multi-level concepts in one paragraph.

If you've actually read what I've said, you wouldn't accuse me of attacking just anime. As I've said, romanticism exists across all cultures. If you want to understand the commodification of culture, perhaps I would recommend Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

I'm not requiring that you read it, as I have not even read it all the way through between life, doom, and schoolwork, however, it is a very helpful reference. And yes, there can be meaning in entertainment. However, entertainment is what it is. Justin Bieber is entertainment music. Aphex Twin is expressive music. Who would you rather listen to? The purpose of entertainment primarily is to sell s**t.
Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott


In other words. A world that kills itself.

Elaborate


For starters. Humans are smarter than any animal in existance. And that reason, is why our race thrived. Also if we were to live like simpletons, we'd be nothing more but smaller more intelligent dinosaurs. But you know, a world free of boredom wouldn't be so bad. Except not for us humans. Humans will always ******** up on any given scenario given to them. that is why we were never successful at uniting each other.

Perhaps. But as you said, they do ******** up EVERY situation. What other species is so overpopulated and stratified that it cannot sustain itself? I really don't see how my theoretical reality is much worse than what we live in. Would you rather live in a slightly more enjoyable shithole or a shittier shithole? Personally, I'd rather live in the slightly more enjoyable shithole. Unless I was particularly a fan of shitiness. Besides, if you know anything about human history, you'll understand that before the dawn of civilization when we were the simplest, is when we were ******** things up the least. Environmental destruction was not an issue 10,000 years ago.
only if you don't count eliminating or assimilating all other hominan lines we interacted with not ******** things up as badly. up until modern homo sapiens sapiens started taking over there were typically multiple hominan lines alive at the same time, sometimes even managing a level of coexistance since fossil evidence shows an overlap in ranges for some hominans that were contemporary to eachother. now all that's left of the hominan line of the ape family is us, unless stuff like bigfoot, yeti, an almas are relict populations of other hominan lines and homo floresiensis isn't extinct (altho native lore would indicate if they are they survived deliberate attempts to wipe them out).

modern man has a shittastic track record.

As if some of us didn't try to kill every other form of human 70 years ago. And 70 years ago they had gas chambers which are more effective than mere spears.
Oh yes
bouncy breasts do seem to appeal to me and make me believe that my cartoons are much better than real life
I just cant get enough of them
Now, if only Rip had them....
Mugetsu Ookamiza's avatar

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TheSituationist
Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott


In other words. A world that kills itself.

Elaborate


For starters. Humans are smarter than any animal in existance. And that reason, is why our race thrived. Also if we were to live like simpletons, we'd be nothing more but smaller more intelligent dinosaurs. But you know, a world free of boredom wouldn't be so bad. Except not for us humans. Humans will always ******** up on any given scenario given to them. that is why we were never successful at uniting each other.

Perhaps. But as you said, they do ******** up EVERY situation. What other species is so overpopulated and stratified that it cannot sustain itself? I really don't see how my theoretical reality is much worse than what we live in. Would you rather live in a slightly more enjoyable shithole or a shittier shithole? Personally, I'd rather live in the slightly more enjoyable shithole. Unless I was particularly a fan of shitiness. Besides, if you know anything about human history, you'll understand that before the dawn of civilization when we were the simplest, is when we were ******** things up the least. Environmental destruction was not an issue 10,000 years ago.
only if you don't count eliminating or assimilating all other hominan lines we interacted with not ******** things up as badly. up until modern homo sapiens sapiens started taking over there were typically multiple hominan lines alive at the same time, sometimes even managing a level of coexistance since fossil evidence shows an overlap in ranges for some hominans that were contemporary to eachother. now all that's left of the hominan line of the ape family is us, unless stuff like bigfoot, yeti, an almas are relict populations of other hominan lines and homo floresiensis isn't extinct (altho native lore would indicate if they are they survived deliberate attempts to wipe them out).

modern man has a shittastic track record.

As if some of us didn't try to kill every other form of human 70 years ago. And 70 years ago they had gas chambers which are more effective than mere spears.
when you consider back in prehistory we were practicing genocide and even today our species still tries to do so with whatever they have access to is that we are a majorly flawed race prone to screwing things up from the beginning. yeah, we can ******** things up worse now than we could, but humans are smart, we've managed to improve our tools, and that's not even something limited to primates but to any species with enough smarts (granted, the primate line has the dexterous hand that let them take it to extremes, but imagine what dolphins could do if they had something as dexterous as our hands since even without they've been known to use simple tools). and of course those tools, which we would inevitably reinvent something similar to even if we gave them up, would make doing things easier; it makes doing good easier, but it makes it all the more easy for us to ******** things up as well.

but then you have to considered that in prehistory our race tried and succeeded in committing genocide on other hominian lines with stuff like spears but then Hitler, with all his access to stuff much more advanced, tried and failed to commit genocide on one ethnicity. he couldn't do what out ancient ancestors managed to do because people used the tools they had to oppose him. surely that says that for all the flaws humanity has as a whole we're improving? if all out progress has brought us to a point where we can start to learn and eventually improve more what's so bad about where society is now, on a path to growing into something that could be much better?
sinfully_cute's avatar

Dapper Ladykiller

Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott


For starters. Humans are smarter than any animal in existance. And that reason, is why our race thrived. Also if we were to live like simpletons, we'd be nothing more but smaller more intelligent dinosaurs. But you know, a world free of boredom wouldn't be so bad. Except not for us humans. Humans will always ******** up on any given scenario given to them. that is why we were never successful at uniting each other.

Perhaps. But as you said, they do ******** up EVERY situation. What other species is so overpopulated and stratified that it cannot sustain itself? I really don't see how my theoretical reality is much worse than what we live in. Would you rather live in a slightly more enjoyable shithole or a shittier shithole? Personally, I'd rather live in the slightly more enjoyable shithole. Unless I was particularly a fan of shitiness. Besides, if you know anything about human history, you'll understand that before the dawn of civilization when we were the simplest, is when we were ******** things up the least. Environmental destruction was not an issue 10,000 years ago.
only if you don't count eliminating or assimilating all other hominan lines we interacted with not ******** things up as badly. up until modern homo sapiens sapiens started taking over there were typically multiple hominan lines alive at the same time, sometimes even managing a level of coexistance since fossil evidence shows an overlap in ranges for some hominans that were contemporary to eachother. now all that's left of the hominan line of the ape family is us, unless stuff like bigfoot, yeti, an almas are relict populations of other hominan lines and homo floresiensis isn't extinct (altho native lore would indicate if they are they survived deliberate attempts to wipe them out).

modern man has a shittastic track record.

As if some of us didn't try to kill every other form of human 70 years ago. And 70 years ago they had gas chambers which are more effective than mere spears.
when you consider back in prehistory we were practicing genocide and even today our species still tries to do so with whatever they have access to is that we are a majorly flawed race prone to screwing things up from the beginning. yeah, we can ******** things up worse now than we could, but humans are smart, we've managed to improve our tools, and that's not even something limited to primates but to any species with enough smarts (granted, the primate line has the dexterous hand that let them take it to extremes, but imagine what dolphins could do if they had something as dexterous as our hands since even without they've been known to use simple tools). and of course those tools, which we would inevitably reinvent something similar to even if we gave them up, would make doing things easier; it makes doing good easier, but it makes it all the more easy for us to ******** things up as well.

but then you have to considered that in prehistory our race tried and succeeded in committing genocide on other hominian lines with stuff like spears but then Hitler, with all his access to stuff much more advanced, tried and failed to commit genocide on one ethnicity. he couldn't do what out ancient ancestors managed to do because people used the tools they had to oppose him. surely that says that for all the flaws humanity has as a whole we're improving? if all out progress has brought us to a point where we can start to learn and eventually improve more what's so bad about where society is now, on a path to growing into something that could be much better?


I don't know that society will "improve" much more... human nature is a stable thing. However, things shouldn't be getting worse, either. Because unlike our ancestors we have laws and morals.

And obviously, the OP's idea of "complete freedom" would not be a more enjoyable shithole. How does your world free of obligations work? That would give a person the freedom to kill you if you're sitting in a car they want. Or if they just feel like it, because they're free from the obligation to restrain themselves. Right? A world with no order at all would be less enjoyable because you would have to be living in fear. I'm sure you're trolling, but w/e.
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott
> 2012
> Still attacking entertainment

I really ******** hate my generation. Now I wish I could apply for a job as a debris collector so I may get away from this stinking planet.


What is the value of entertainment? I find a difference between entertainment and expression. Just think about what entertainment means. Entertainment is a method of occupying boredom. Would entertainment have a purpose in a world free of boredom?


That's horrible. How can you know what's good if you don't know what's bad. How can you know what's entertaining if you don't know what's boring?
Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott


For starters. Humans are smarter than any animal in existance. And that reason, is why our race thrived. Also if we were to live like simpletons, we'd be nothing more but smaller more intelligent dinosaurs. But you know, a world free of boredom wouldn't be so bad. Except not for us humans. Humans will always ******** up on any given scenario given to them. that is why we were never successful at uniting each other.

Perhaps. But as you said, they do ******** up EVERY situation. What other species is so overpopulated and stratified that it cannot sustain itself? I really don't see how my theoretical reality is much worse than what we live in. Would you rather live in a slightly more enjoyable shithole or a shittier shithole? Personally, I'd rather live in the slightly more enjoyable shithole. Unless I was particularly a fan of shitiness. Besides, if you know anything about human history, you'll understand that before the dawn of civilization when we were the simplest, is when we were ******** things up the least. Environmental destruction was not an issue 10,000 years ago.
only if you don't count eliminating or assimilating all other hominan lines we interacted with not ******** things up as badly. up until modern homo sapiens sapiens started taking over there were typically multiple hominan lines alive at the same time, sometimes even managing a level of coexistance since fossil evidence shows an overlap in ranges for some hominans that were contemporary to eachother. now all that's left of the hominan line of the ape family is us, unless stuff like bigfoot, yeti, an almas are relict populations of other hominan lines and homo floresiensis isn't extinct (altho native lore would indicate if they are they survived deliberate attempts to wipe them out).

modern man has a shittastic track record.

As if some of us didn't try to kill every other form of human 70 years ago. And 70 years ago they had gas chambers which are more effective than mere spears.
when you consider back in prehistory we were practicing genocide and even today our species still tries to do so with whatever they have access to is that we are a majorly flawed race prone to screwing things up from the beginning. yeah, we can ******** things up worse now than we could, but humans are smart, we've managed to improve our tools, and that's not even something limited to primates but to any species with enough smarts (granted, the primate line has the dexterous hand that let them take it to extremes, but imagine what dolphins could do if they had something as dexterous as our hands since even without they've been known to use simple tools). and of course those tools, which we would inevitably reinvent something similar to even if we gave them up, would make doing things easier; it makes doing good easier, but it makes it all the more easy for us to ******** things up as well.

but then you have to considered that in prehistory our race tried and succeeded in committing genocide on other hominian lines with stuff like spears but then Hitler, with all his access to stuff much more advanced, tried and failed to commit genocide on one ethnicity. he couldn't do what out ancient ancestors managed to do because people used the tools they had to oppose him. surely that says that for all the flaws humanity has as a whole we're improving? if all out progress has brought us to a point where we can start to learn and eventually improve more what's so bad about where society is now, on a path to growing into something that could be much better?


I wish I knew a little more about Hegelian Dialectic since the conversation is going into THAT territory. I'll try to explain what little of Hegel I know. Hegel is the guy who originally stated that history repeats itself. According to him, all of history manifests itself as a struggle for dominance with the dominators assuming that their domination will lead to happiness. However, they discover that domination is not all it's perked up to be. Of course even though Hitler failed due to popular disapproval that doesn't mean that he doesn't follow the same cycle as the primitive humans. The primitives were just more successful because they were better able to collectivize rather than attempt a genocide in Hitler's ******** super-capitalist society. Sure, we don't have successful genocides anymore, but, we are facing attempts at domination from every angle. Our parents, teachers, and bosses try to control us as they make us do things unnecessary to the end result. A tie isn't going to affect the performance of a call center. An assload of repetitive work is going to help us better learn the concepts we already understand. Being grounded by an authoritarian parent isn't going to make us learn any lesson; it's just going to make us resent the parent. Hegel's solution to history is subjective freedom. We need to get freedom from this lie of domineering rather than keep following the cyclic flow. Just because Hitler failed, doesn't mean there won't be a more successful genocide in the future. History repeats itself.
Brother Louie
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott
> 2012
> Still attacking entertainment

I really ******** hate my generation. Now I wish I could apply for a job as a debris collector so I may get away from this stinking planet.


What is the value of entertainment? I find a difference between entertainment and expression. Just think about what entertainment means. Entertainment is a method of occupying boredom. Would entertainment have a purpose in a world free of boredom?


That's horrible. How can you know what's good if you don't know what's bad. How can you know what's entertaining if you don't know what's boring?


Could you refer to sex as entertainment? No. Maybe pornography. Entertainment is the indirect experience that promises a false solution to boredom in order to commodify our lives. Entertainment is created by the same society that fosters boredom. I will give you my operational definitions of "entertainment" and "boredom". Boredom is the consequence of the absence of freedom. Entertainment is the means created to defeat boredom.
TheSituationist
Brother Louie
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott
> 2012
> Still attacking entertainment

I really ******** hate my generation. Now I wish I could apply for a job as a debris collector so I may get away from this stinking planet.


What is the value of entertainment? I find a difference between entertainment and expression. Just think about what entertainment means. Entertainment is a method of occupying boredom. Would entertainment have a purpose in a world free of boredom?


That's horrible. How can you know what's good if you don't know what's bad. How can you know what's entertaining if you don't know what's boring?


Could you refer to sex as entertainment? No. Maybe pornography. Entertainment is the indirect experience that promises a false solution to boredom in order to commodify our lives. Entertainment is created by the same society that fosters boredom. I will give you my operational definitions of "entertainment" and "boredom". Boredom is the consequence of the absence of freedom. Entertainment is the means created to defeat boredom.


Kid. Are you still a virgin?
-_ChickenBiscuitJr_-cbjr's avatar

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So your telling me to stay away from the TV completely...
Yea, not happening, I rather like where I'm at in life and I do deal with life, anime is like a vacation when you can't have a REAL vacation.
TL;DR

...And is it just me or do you look like PAK?
sinfully_cute
Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Mugetsu Ookamiza
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott


For starters. Humans are smarter than any animal in existance. And that reason, is why our race thrived. Also if we were to live like simpletons, we'd be nothing more but smaller more intelligent dinosaurs. But you know, a world free of boredom wouldn't be so bad. Except not for us humans. Humans will always ******** up on any given scenario given to them. that is why we were never successful at uniting each other.

Perhaps. But as you said, they do ******** up EVERY situation. What other species is so overpopulated and stratified that it cannot sustain itself? I really don't see how my theoretical reality is much worse than what we live in. Would you rather live in a slightly more enjoyable shithole or a shittier shithole? Personally, I'd rather live in the slightly more enjoyable shithole. Unless I was particularly a fan of shitiness. Besides, if you know anything about human history, you'll understand that before the dawn of civilization when we were the simplest, is when we were ******** things up the least. Environmental destruction was not an issue 10,000 years ago.
only if you don't count eliminating or assimilating all other hominan lines we interacted with not ******** things up as badly. up until modern homo sapiens sapiens started taking over there were typically multiple hominan lines alive at the same time, sometimes even managing a level of coexistance since fossil evidence shows an overlap in ranges for some hominans that were contemporary to eachother. now all that's left of the hominan line of the ape family is us, unless stuff like bigfoot, yeti, an almas are relict populations of other hominan lines and homo floresiensis isn't extinct (altho native lore would indicate if they are they survived deliberate attempts to wipe them out).

modern man has a shittastic track record.

As if some of us didn't try to kill every other form of human 70 years ago. And 70 years ago they had gas chambers which are more effective than mere spears.
when you consider back in prehistory we were practicing genocide and even today our species still tries to do so with whatever they have access to is that we are a majorly flawed race prone to screwing things up from the beginning. yeah, we can ******** things up worse now than we could, but humans are smart, we've managed to improve our tools, and that's not even something limited to primates but to any species with enough smarts (granted, the primate line has the dexterous hand that let them take it to extremes, but imagine what dolphins could do if they had something as dexterous as our hands since even without they've been known to use simple tools). and of course those tools, which we would inevitably reinvent something similar to even if we gave them up, would make doing things easier; it makes doing good easier, but it makes it all the more easy for us to ******** things up as well.

but then you have to considered that in prehistory our race tried and succeeded in committing genocide on other hominian lines with stuff like spears but then Hitler, with all his access to stuff much more advanced, tried and failed to commit genocide on one ethnicity. he couldn't do what out ancient ancestors managed to do because people used the tools they had to oppose him. surely that says that for all the flaws humanity has as a whole we're improving? if all out progress has brought us to a point where we can start to learn and eventually improve more what's so bad about where society is now, on a path to growing into something that could be much better?


I don't know that society will "improve" much more... human nature is a stable thing. However, things shouldn't be getting worse, either. Because unlike our ancestors we have laws and morals.

And obviously, the OP's idea of "complete freedom" would not be a more enjoyable shithole. How does your world free of obligations work? That would give a person the freedom to kill you if you're sitting in a car they want. Or if they just feel like it, because they're free from the obligation to restrain themselves. Right? A world with no order at all would be less enjoyable because you would have to be living in fear. I'm sure you're trolling, but w/e.

Laws are just an expression of conformity by coercion. Morals are a lie. There is no absolute truth. If morals actually did exist, there would be no criminals. What we need is love. As it is said "love conquers all". The people we want to kill are the ones we're isolated from. Our society fosters isolation. I feel the need to create a society that fosters love. Love is an egoist venture that satisfies the ego's needs while not destroying the interests of the collective. With our system of laws and the lies we call morals, crime will never die.

And no I am not a troll. I enjoy trolling but now I am being completely srs.
des solo's avatar

Dapper Shapeshifter

while I would agree that many anime fans are socially detached, it's not because they watch anime. The argument I see is fiction= stunted reality. Also, I see an argument that people watch anime for escape from reality, a common misconception. But in fact,the fictional medium is supposed to fight and analyze reality.
And if you want to bring in hentei or ecchi, it's just another strange form of pornography.

There's also a number of anime and manga based off of realism, for example most of the seinen and psychological genres.

(also why is this thread bringing in genocide)
des solo
while I would agree that many anime fans are socially detached, it's not because they watch anime. The argument I see is fiction= stunted reality. Also, I see an argument that people watch anime for escape from reality, a common misconception. But in fact,the fictional medium is supposed to fight and analyze reality.
And if you want to bring in hentei or ecchi, it's just another strange form of pornography.

There's also a number of anime and manga based off of realism, for example most of the seinen and psychological genres.

(also why is this thread bringing in genocide)

I have no problem with anime that does such. However, a lot of anime I see depicts a romantic view a reality. Some of the posters here have admitted that they enjoy it as an escape from reality (and apparently don't have a problem with such). But, in really most anime, and the reason I used to casually enjoy anime before I got into anarchism is its romantic depiction of reality. Name me one mainstream anime you feel analyzes reality and I'll tell you if I think it contains romanticism.
Brother Louie
TheSituationist
Brother Louie
TheSituationist
Dangruff Scott
> 2012
> Still attacking entertainment

I really ******** hate my generation. Now I wish I could apply for a job as a debris collector so I may get away from this stinking planet.


What is the value of entertainment? I find a difference between entertainment and expression. Just think about what entertainment means. Entertainment is a method of occupying boredom. Would entertainment have a purpose in a world free of boredom?


That's horrible. How can you know what's good if you don't know what's bad. How can you know what's entertaining if you don't know what's boring?


Could you refer to sex as entertainment? No. Maybe pornography. Entertainment is the indirect experience that promises a false solution to boredom in order to commodify our lives. Entertainment is created by the same society that fosters boredom. I will give you my operational definitions of "entertainment" and "boredom". Boredom is the consequence of the absence of freedom. Entertainment is the means created to defeat boredom.


Kid. Are you still a virgin?

Last time I checked I was. Now, would you elaborate how that affects my argument. A great majority of people on here are still virgins. The main reason this occurs is due to a product of social isolation. I've been a socially stunted hermit all my life. My motive for provoking a discussion is to gradually find an end to our means our separation.

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